Another question about Probate

TomsMom

Well, two actually.

I'm almost done sorting out the forms but wonder if someone can answer me these questions.

1) When you put down funeral expenses, do you include the cost of flowers as well? I have the funeral director's bill but I arranged the flowers through a local florist instead of the FD, can I include this cost?

2) My husband had an annuity which provided him with a pension and now provides me with a lifetime pension once probate has been granted. There is a guarantee period which means that if I die within that period then the pension continues to be paid into my estate for the remainder of that period. Does this have to be put anywhere on the probate or IHT205(2006) forms.

Errata

I can only help you with the flowers. Floral tributes are in the gift of the giver and not part of the costs of a funeral.

TomsMom

Errata wrote: »

I can only help you with the flowers. Floral tributes are in the gift of the giver and not part of the costs of a funeral.

OK, thanks Errata.

So if the FD had also arranged the flowers then that cost would have to be deducted from his bill?

What about refreshments after, we had a buffet for those attending, do I have to deduct that?

Actually, this is how the invoice is laid out

FD Services ........................................................ £YYYY


Ministers fees ................................. £XX
Crematorium fees ............................ £XXX
Transit of documents to Crem ........... £X
Printed service sheets ..................... £XX
Doctors' fees for crem forms ............ £XXX
Refreshments afterwards ................. £XXX
Press notice ...................................£XX

Can I include all of this or is there some to be deducted?

Errata

Sorry, I can't help re the refreshments - we've always had those closest back to the house for a cupp etc. Someone else may know.
Perhaps it depends on whether the inheritors of the estate would object to people being fed and watered, as it's an 'extra', unlike the minister?

TomsMom

Everything comes to me and I've no objections .

Thanks for your help. Perhaps someone else may come along and can possibly answer the other questions.

Crabapple

You could get away with deducting something for the wake, but by the sounds of things you are dealing with a spouse exempt estate? In which case it makes very little difference. I think the rule is 'reasonable costs' but no definition of what is reasonable! Flowers, you can often include one bouquet or the coffin spray but not all the flowers if family and friends are getting lots of tributes.

Re the annuity, there is a question in the tick box section about continuing payments from a pension/annuity, but that doesn't normally include a spouse pension. If it is guaranteed to you for a certain period that shouldn't be an issue in this estate, only in yours if you were to not survive that minimum period, so you shouldn't need to declare it now.

Hope that helps!

PasturesNew

If it all comes to you - and if there are no inheritance tax issues as it's nowhere near the threshold, then the detail's not really important at all. All this stuff's really about accounting for everything so that IHT can be calculated properly - and so that people get what they're expecting/owed as an inheritance.... so if it's just you and there's nothing for the tax man, then take the easiest route with what to put down.

TomsMom

Thanks Crabapple and Pastures New.

Because OH was diagnosed with a terminal illness and knew he would die within a few months, the wills were written so that everything comes to me and my will has other provisions.

There was one coffin spray only and the refreshments came to just over £200 so no overly big expenses there so I imagine they come within "reasonable costs".

The annuity provides me with a pension for the rest of my life, the guarantee period was for 5 or 10 years (must check!) so that would continue to be paid to my estate if I didn't survive that long.

There is only an ISA in savings in his name (plus his half share of the house as it was in joint names) and it is nowhere near IHT level. To be honest it all seems such a fuss for a small amount but them's the rules and one must abide by them!

I'm quite annoyed I can't get the pension from this annuity until Probate is granted, it really would be a big help to have it now, but it's apparently because it's got a guarantee period that the provider requires sight of the Grant of Probate. I'm sure DH didn't know there would be this delay, he would be quite upset because he spent a long time organising everything to be as smooth as possible following his passing.

floss2

TomsMom wrote: »

...I'm quite annoyed I can't get the pension from this annuity until Probate is granted, it really would be a big help to have it now, but it's apparently because it's got a guarantee period that the provider requires sight of the Grant of Probate. I'm sure DH didn't know there would be this delay, he would be quite upset because he spent a long time organising everything to be as smooth as possible following his passing.

Have you been in & spoken to your bank about maybe a temporary overdraft to assist until probate is granted? You will probably need to take in copies of the ISA & annuity paperwork and the will to prove that you are the benificiary.

TomsMom

floss2 wrote: »

Have you been in & spoken to your bank about maybe a temporary overdraft to assist until probate is granted? You will probably need to take in copies of the ISA & annuity paperwork and the will to prove that you are the benificiary.

Thanks for the idea but I have some savings I can dip into if necessary.

My weekly state pension has increased by £13 which I believe is something to do with OH's contributions, plus the Bereavement Payment of £2,000 which I have now received will go a long way towards regular bills for the next few months. There is a small widow's pension from his 6 years in the Fire Service which should come through soon, they don't require Grant of Probate, just the death, marriage and birth certificates. Just wish it was as simple with the annuity.

It's just that I don't like dipping into savings for bills as it never seems to get put back, hopefully it wont come to that.

floss2

TomsMom wrote: »

Thanks for the idea but I have some savings I can dip into if necessary.

My weekly state pension has increased by £13 which I believe is something to do with OH's contributions, plus the Bereavement Payment of £2,000 which I have now received will go a long way towards regular bills for the next few months. There is a small widow's pension from his 6 years in the Fire Service which should come through soon, they don't require Grant of Probate, just the death, marriage and birth certificates. Just wish it was as simple with the annuity.

It's just that I don't like dipping into savings for bills as it never seems to get put back, hopefully it wont come to that.

Why not promise yourself that when you get the first annuity payment you will replace all the dipping you have had to do? Then you can sit down & work out your finances based on your new income.

Please remember that even though your OH was not well for a while and you both had time to prepare for what would happen, you still need to grieve.

Best wishes,
Floss x