Ticket Issued - Private Property

titch2k6

Hi guys and gals.

Looking for some advice here as this is getting on my nerves now. Quickly explain the situation and actions so far........

Worked at a Home Office site in Sheffield a couple of weeks back during night-shift hours (1800 - 0300). Alongside the site is a number of parking bays which are signed as "Private Property" with parking restriction notices in force. Due to the nature of work being carried out and the need for my vehicle to be in close proximity to the site, the property owner authorised parking in the bay closest to the building entrance.

Some time during the night, the works van got ticketed, much to the amusement of the other engineer with whom I was working with......it was his facilities management company that issued the ticket.

Purely because this was a company vehicle and authorisation was given to park on the site by the property owners, I wrote to challenge the PCN issued. Needless to say, this has got me nowhere and the issuing company is demanding payment of £80.00 by the 22nd November, or it goes up to £160.00 and arguing although authorisation was given to park there, parking conditions indicated on signage were breached and therefore, the challenge does not stand.

Surely, if the private property owner gave authorisation to park in the bay, and here I am refering to contract law between the property owner and the ticketing company, as soon as the property owner gave permission to park, the conditions of the parking notice were void and no longer enforcable?

I really need to issue a 2nd challenge as I do not want the issue to end up in the hands of my boss being the vehicle owner and registered keeper - he is busy enough without all this as well!! Any pointers or legal stuff I can throw at this company to get them to see beyond their own pockets and realise why this is an invalid PCN issue?

pogofish

Ignore the ticket and any following letters from either the PPC or their fake debt collectors, stop communicating with them, tell your boss he is being scammed and point him at this link.

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2009/5/28/...ts-urged/30698/

Problem goes away!

Sirdan

First you need to ignore these morons who as you say only look to line their own pockets regardless of the right or wrong.

Secondly by virtue of contract law only you the driver are responsible , so tell your boss to ignore them too or to write and tell them to stop harassing him when they already know he is not the driver.

AlexisV

Usually the advice is ignore, but seeing as the boss is involved and you've contacted them once, it would be worth telling them to stick it.

I like their phoney 'appeal' reason - you had permission to park from the landowner who employs us, but we're still going to tell you to pay up.

How about writing one letter to the parking co:

"I wrote to inform you that I had permission to park from the landowner, who employ you to 'manage' their land, and you acknowledged this. Despite this you are intent on persisting in your campaign of harassment for a sum you have clearly stated is not owed.

Cease and desist from pursuing this disputed debt or I will be left with no choice but to issue a county court claim to recover the amount of time wasted in dealing with this. Bear in mind that the landowner is jointly and severally liable for your actions and would not look kindly on being dragged into a court claim, despite having given authorisation to use their land. You may also wish to consider the implications for keeping your contract with this operator if you cannot comply with your employer's instructions.

I look forward to being informed the charge is cancelled."

titch2k6

Hi peeps.

Taken the replies into account and have drafted the following letter to forward to the parking operative as a second challenge. I would appreciate any feedback on it, with any adjustment suggestions welcome.



Dear Sir/ Madam,

REFERENCE: Parking Charge Notice - VC********

I write to you with regards the above mentioned Notice Serial Number, issued 01/11/2011 at 20:36 hours and the letter you sent in response to the challenge I made on 02/11/2011.

I acknowledge your later dated 8th November, 2011 where you have stated that there are no grounds for the Notice to be waived. However, I disagree with this decision and request that the case is looked at again. There is no "concern" at receiving a Notice as stated by yourselves in your letter, but I dispute that no breach of contract between myself and the landowner has been made and therefore, the issue of a parking charge notice was not valid.

Under Contract Law, which applies to this case, I concur that it is deemed by an Operating Company (yourselves) that there exists a contract between a vehicle driver and a landowner that permits use of their land. This contract is laid out by signage within the area in question and lays out the conditions of that said contract (in other words, through terms and conditions stated within parking signage).

However, when a landowner grants direct authorisation for a vehicle to park on their property, there exists a new contract agreement directly between the landowner and the vehicle driver, which in this instance was not breached, as the vehicle was parked at the location and during the hours specified and agreed upon by the landowner. If anything, the contract held between myself and the landowner, your employer, has been breached by the issue of this charge notice and by law, I am well within my rights to seek compensation for this breach of contract and for time taken to resolve this issue.

So, once again, I respectfully request that this case is reviewed and with the facts stated taken into consideration, the notice is revoked.

I thank you in advance for your time and assistance in this matter and look forward to your reponse at your earliest convenience.

The_Slithy_Tove

If I were writing the letter, I would be more forthright and a bit more blunt about the consequences to them in not cancelling the ticket, by using more of the language that Alexis suggested.

notts_phil

You should put your letter as suggested by.Alexis. So your telling not asking

titch2k6

Have ammended the letter as suggested by all that commented - thanks to all. Letter now reads as follows:

"Dear Sir/ Madam,

REFERENCE: Parking Charge Notice - VC********

I write to you with regards the above mentioned Notice Serial Number, issued 01/11/2011 at 20:36 hours and the letter you sent in response to the challenge I made on 02/11/2011.

I acknowledge your later dated 8th November, 2011 where you have stated that there are no grounds for the Notice to be waived. However, I disagree with this decision and challenge its issue again. There is no "concern" at receiving a Notice as stated by yourselves in your letter, but I dispute that no breach of contract between myself and the landowner has been made and therefore, the issue of a parking charge notice was not valid. I wrote to inform you that I had permission to park from the landowner, who employ you to 'manage' their land. Despite this you are intent on persisting in your claim for a sum that is clearly not owed.

Under Contract Law, which applies to this case, I concur that it is deemed by an Operating Company (like yourselves) that there exists a contract between a vehicle driver and a landowner that permits use of their land. This contract is laid out by signage within the area in question and lays out the conditions of that said contract (in other words, through terms and conditions stated within parking signage).

However, when a landowner grants direct authorisation for a vehicle to park on their property, there exists a new contract agreement directly between the landowner and the vehicle driver, which in this instance was not breached, as the vehicle was parked at the location and during the hours specified and agreed upon by the landowner. If anything, the contract held between myself and the landowner, your employer, has been breached by the issue of this charge notice and by law, I am well within my rights to seek compensation for this breach of contract and for time taken to resolve this issue.

Cease and desist from pursuing this disputed debt or I will be left with no choice but to issue a county court claim to recover the amount of time wasted in dealing with this. Bear in mind that the landowner is jointly and severally liable for your actions and would not look kindly on being dragged into a court claim, despite having given their authorisation to use their land.

I look forward to being informed the charge is cancelled."

titch2k6

Just an update.......

Recieved a letter from VCS with regards my second challenge. They are still stating that the ticket was issued correctly and will not be revolked.

They also state in the same letter that their helpline number is located on all of their signs and had I "utilised this number to inform a member of our staff of the circumstances you describe, you may have avoided receiving a Parking Charge Notice".

Two trails of thought. Firstly, surely that would not have been my responsibility and if anything, the landowner should have informed the company. There certainly was no mention of "If you have permision to park by the landowner, phone this number" on their signage!! Secondly, if I had called their number and "may have avoided recieving a Parking Charge Notice", why the hell is it any different explaining it now and them voiding the ticket????

I guess next stage is to take it to an appeal with the British Parking Association. At the very least, this will put the alleged debt into default and prevent them taking action on harassing me for the amount in question and prevent them from taking court action (which they have threatened me with again).

Will draft a letter to the BPA over next couple of days and post up. As usual, any suggestions or help would be appreciated.

bromsgrovebarry

A letter of appeal to the BPA is a waste of a stamp. The BPA is the Guild of Scammers and does not provider independent arbitration. The BPA codes of practice are a cheap veneer to put a positive spin on a nasty little scam so that the parking 'industry' can beg for concessions from the Westminster trough feeders. There is no point in appealing a fake parking ticket with such an organisation.

titch2k6

titch2k6 wrote: »

I guess next stage is to take it to an appeal with the British Parking Association.

And there we go.......

The BPA do not offer an appeal process. Any ideas? Should I now just ignore anything they send me and see what happens? Maybe, if they do take it to court, I can state my case there?