revoked redundancy

*depressed*

I am asking this on behalf of my father in law, sorry if it dosen't make sense or if i am asking something obvious because I don't have any knowledge of redundancy

My father in law has worked for the same company for the past 28 years, its a factory with 3 shifts, the nightshift were all taken into a meeting an told that were being made redundant and it would likely be in around 5 weeks time (end of november) they did say some employees might be able to go onto the day shift but these were for the roles of the line staff (fil is a fitter and does not work on the line)

Fil found a new job which he has accepted, he had a few chats with his manager and HR and was told how much redundancy pay he would recieve (20 years of 1 week per year plus 12 weeks full pay) then last week he was asked to go and see the manager of the factory and he was advised that they have now secured enough work and that the staff will not be made redundant anymore, fil was pleased with this news, however last night he was then advised that maybe next month or the month after they might then be made redundant etc

questions - can fil submit counter notice to leave (?) if he never recieved his last day of working in writing

how many times can a company hold a meeting to advise of redundancy then change their mind, is it as much as they want or do they need to wait 3 months etc

any other information would be helpful, taking the new job will be a massive paycut so its not just a simple leave work and just take the new job

thank you in advance

getmore4less

Until you are given notice and it ends you still have a job.
Counter notice can only be given within the statutory notice period.

Company can advise there may be issues as many times as they need.

Acc72

*depressed* wrote: »

the nightshift were all taken into a meeting an told that were being made redundant and it would likely be in around 5 weeks time (end of november)

Somebody will be able to confirm the leagalities, but how were they "told".

How far down the process are they.

Also, are ALL employees now being told that there will be no redundancies (and then that there might be ?).

Did your FIL tell his employer about the new job ? - could they be calling his bluff to save a whole bunch of redundancy pay ?

Could your FIL speak to the new employer and ask that his start date is delayed ? - he can then tell his current company that he is staying put and see what happens.

How likely is it that your FIL will get another suitable job if he is finally made redundant ?

*depressed*

Thanks getmoreforless

Somebody will be able to confirm the leagalities, but how were they "told". At the end of their shift they were asked to all go into the office, they were told they would be made redundant and given a letter which basically just states that the business needs are now only requiring day shift and the night shift will be closing, therefore they are considering redundancies and they are to have an individual meeting to discuss their redundancy pay and chances of staying in the company, in his meeting that was just with his manager and he was told he should look for another job because they only need one fitter per shift and the other 2 day shifts still have their fitter etc this has not been confirmed in writing though, he was told verbally how much redundancy money he will get and how they worked it all out etc

How far down the process are they. They has asked to be flexible with their end date but advised it would be towards the end of november, but they would be paid 3 months notice minus anything they worked since they had the chat at the end of the shift (last week in october)

Also, are ALL employees now being told that there will be no redundancies (and then that there might be ?). all employees have been told the same information, however in the individual meetings some staff were told they could apply for positions on the day shift as there were a few vacancies opening up

Did your FIL tell his employer about the new job ? - could they be calling his bluff to save a whole bunch of redundancy pay ? no he hasnt told them yet

Could your FIL speak to the new employer and ask that his start date is delayed ? - he can then tell his current company that he is staying put and see what happens. The new company are being quite flexiable and have been made aware of the situation, fil advised he will speak with his current employer and see whats happening and get back to them

How likely is it that your FIL will get another suitable job if he is finally made redundant ? fil is 58 so thats the main thing that is holding him back, also he has worked for the same company for so long that things have changed a lot in his area of work which he may not be able to do in other factories as he now only knows the job he actually does now, the job he has been offered is more than likely to be because the job is through a friend

Thank you for your reply x

Sambucus_Nigra

given a letter which basically just states that the business needs are now only requiring day shift and the night shift will be closing

What is the actual wording on this letter? I take it that it is an 'at risk' letter rather than a 'confirmation that you are being made redundant' letter?

*depressed*

Thats right, its an at risk letter, i can get the letter and type it on here tonight, but it bascially says that they are at risk unless they can bring something to the meeting which hasnt been thought of before, they were supposed to get their official confirmation letters 3 weeks ago, but then each shift they didnt get them for one reason or another, a week went by and then they were told the letters were ready but just being checked over to confirm they were all correct and then it got to the 3rd week and now they have another big order so now they are not at risk however this procedure might happen each month, his redundancy is worth about £15k so its quite a big decision to walk away with nothing to take the new job which is a massive pay cut and then next month the rest get made redundant and he has lost out so to speak, but job secuirty is also playing a big part

xxx

Jarndyce

*depressed* wrote: »

Thats right, its an at risk letter, i can get the letter and type it on here tonight, but it bascially says that they are at risk unless they can bring something to the meeting which hasnt been thought of before, they were supposed to get their official confirmation letters 3 weeks ago, but then each shift they didnt get them for one reason or another, a week went by and then they were told the letters were ready but just being checked over to confirm they were all correct and then it got to the 3rd week and now they have another big order so now they are not at risk however this procedure might happen each month, his redundancy is worth about £15k so its quite a big decision to walk away with nothing to take the new job which is a massive pay cut and then next month the rest get made redundant and he has lost out so to speak, but job secuirty is also playing a big part

xxx

These are the most important six words in all of the above. Nothing else matters if, as of now, they are no longer at risk of redundancy. The whole process starts again next time there is a risk.

The employer's responsibility is to avoid redundancies so, as long as they can, they should, and it looks like they will. Your FiL has three choices:
a) Leave now, give up hope of any redundancy pay and take up the new post
b) Stay with the current employer, giving up hope of the new post but with the risk of possibly being made redundant in the next couple of months, or
c) Try and juggle the two, keeping the option of the new job open so that he can leave with a redundancy payment next time it comes up. Bearing in mind that he can only leave on counter notice during his statutory notice period, ie once they have final confirmation of redundancy.

Not an easy decision to take, but its one that only your FiL can make.

getmore4less

How far down the process are they. They has asked to be flexible with their end date but advised it would be towards the end of november, but they would be paid 3 months notice minus anything they worked since they had the chat at the end of the shift (last week in october)

They can't do that untill they actually give notice of termination.

Get it clarified that they are under notice of termination.

Once he thas that notice, he can them, making sure he is within the 12 weeks statutory notice, give counternotice.

ceridwen

Sounds like the company are "playing cat and mouse" and trying to have it all ways. They want to keep the particular workers they want to keep - and they want everyone else to get so fed-up with the "Job Hokey-Cokey" (first you're out, then you're in, then you're out, then you're in...shake it all about) that they will "give up and go" just in order to have a bit of certainty as to their future.

A common trick played by employers IMO - in order to make people resign in order to end the uncertainty and the employer then manages to "lose" people from their posts without paying out redundancy money.

The only way to deal with such "cat and mouse games" is to hold your nerve and hold on and hold on and hold on - until either one gets paid due redundancy money (as the employer "blinked first" in this eyeball to eyeball confrontation) OR the employee gets a replacement job that is at least as good and is "secure" (as far as can be seen) and DOES give up and go (but has found a suitable job to go to).

Which of those two options an employee goes for depends purely and simply on which is the best option of those two for them personally.

For £15k level payout its worth the employer playing the Job Hokey Cokey and doing this eyeball to eyeball confrontation to see whether its going to be them or the employee that blinks first.
Yes...I know...I know...its daft - because chances are that the best employees will be the ones most likely to "get another equivalent offer" elsewhere and the employer has been left with everyone else (ie those who - for whatever reason - simply couldnt blink and had to stay playing Job Hokey-Cokey right up to the last minute and the pay-off).....

Horseunderwater

Back in 1996, the same thing happened to me. We were told office closing and staff would all lose jobs. So I went looking for something else and lost out a min £10k payout. So I say stick it out till end and do not get fobbed off into the hell I went through.

Sambucus_Nigra

ceridwen wrote: »

Sounds like the company are "playing cat and mouse" and trying to have it all ways.

No - they just issued an 'at risk letter'. Then, as mentioned in the OP they have now secured enough work and that the staff will not be made redundant anymore. Hence not being at risk any more.

Companies can't get it right can they? They make people redundant and are damned for it - they find more work to keep people in jobs, and are damned for it.