Early exit scheme, redundancy, Help!

*Vikki*

Hi everyone, this I think will be a long post. I want to put down all the information in hope that my situation might even become more clearer for me. As I need some guidance please as to what to do.

I am 25. Civil servant (office job) Started there at 16 on 2nd September 2002. I am an admin assistant, earning £15125 a year, £1050 per month after pension contributions. I am full time. Monday to Friday. About to reach 30 days of annual leave next year. I live at home with my parents still, and owe £7000 on a recent bank loan for a car. 1k on a credit card - 0% to May 2012.

Monday 7th November myself and approximately 20 to 30 AA's my same grade were told that due to a new structure and system coming in next year that the government no longer require AA's. Our options were to apply (via paper application form only) for the Admin officer grade. The closing date for application forms being 18th November, assessment for application forms starting Monday 21st November and results for successful applicants Friday 25th November. Or to take an offer called 'early exit scheme' to be announced on 21st November or to stay at your current grade as they do require some AA's, numbers not given and for how long no one knows or last resort face compulsory redundancy.


It was a shock! I have been an AO before and it stressed me out so much that I downgraded to AA. This was about 6 years ago. I found out the wage increase and it would be £25 more a month. Requiring speaking to customers on the phone and working one late evening a week and one Saturday in 4. All for just £25 more a month! Training and consolidation would be for a further 3 months. Start date for training Feb 12. But starting as an AO from end of November. I have completed the application form for this and am 99% sure I would get the job if I submitted the application form. That job providing you didn't get the sack would be guaranteed for a further 4 years and I would retain my pension and annual leave entitlement.

The problem is the day they start looking at the application forms being 21st November, is the day that they release the figures of how much money they are offering us to go on the 'early exit scheme' Crafty! This is a nation wide thing and we are not the only building going through this. But in my current building only one other AA is actually going for AO as we have all tried the grade and hated it. So looks like most are waiting for pay out or hoping to be kept on.

I have contacted union and HR and my manager to try and get an idea as to how much money the offer would be but no one has any idea. If I knew my offer would be less that £7000 I would HAVE to take AO as I could not afford to leave due to my loan (I will not sell my car, its my hobbie/life! and id loose thousands on it)


I read some policy on the works HR intranet page dated December 2010 and it stated that 'early exit scheme' is one months pay for every year you have been there. So in my case I have been there for 9 years and earn £1050, so would be approx £9000 and a little over. If it was that then I am tempted to take it. I read that they have to give you 3 months notice? So I would be employed up to end of Feb I guess.


My parents said it would be a struggle without my rent money (they have massive debt problems) but they don't want to see me stressed out of my brains like my sisters were when they worked there. But I do feel guilty at not being able to pay my way but at same time can't take AO if it will make my life hell just to pay their rent money.

I havent slept in days and keep having massive arguments with my boyfriend as he keeps saying leave. His unemployed due to a mental illness OCD, so its hard to talk about it with him really as his never really been in full time employment. All my friends who are in work say go for the job I need to be in work. My unemployed parents and bf say leave, funny that...

So when I am offered this payout okay I get to pay off my loan and credit card. I won't be able to claim benefits for 3 months. But then what do I do for a job then? I am so scared I won't find anything. As a test today i have stayed in all day and its zoo boring and no fun when no money to to anything with! I think I would get about £67.50 a week in benefits?

One moment I think go for AO, next I think omg I can't, I rather be out of work. I have applied for a few jobs, but don't hold out much hope. I have low GCSE grades and am not the sharpest tool in the box! I thought about going back to college etc but really don't think id want to really. So id need to find a job but I am lazy. I don't want to travel over an hour, and I don't want to work nights or weekends unless the pay is very good. I have had it very easy in current job, lots of time off and good pay for what I did. So I guess I will now come in to the real world! I don't mind working hard, but it has to be an easy job without using my brain much. Id work in Mc donalds or scraping chewing gum off the streets if the pay was okay, not saying there is anything wrong with those jobs but they wouldn't be my first choice!

Anyway... I have no idea if I did decide not to take the offered pay out announced 21st November, what then would be my offer on 'compulsory redundancy' Union at work are saying it will be a lot less. But how much less? As obviously I would be in more months work due to staying there and them sorting out when to get rid of me. Where if I take this exit scheme I guess I would leave end of Feb. After my 3 months notice, which I think they would make me work. I also realised there isn't much point me applying for other jobs right now as if I got them I wouldn't be able to start to another 3 months time due to the time scales of this thing.

Arghh help!

anoneemouse

1. What Department are you?

2. When they say "so many months pay" - then do they mean "deemed pay" or "actual pay"? As in I believe some civil servants (ie the particularly low-paid ones - such as yourself) will get redundancy based on "deemed pay" - rather than "actual pay".

"Deemed pay" is rather higher than "actual pay" for those affected - think it means redundancy pay is based on around £21,000 pa rather than the actual amount of pay the person gets.

*Vikki*

I don't really wanna say on here..... I am not sure if its deemed or actual it doesn't say on the works intranet. I did read something about £21k on the internet!

jfdi

http://www.civilservice.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/CSCS_Compulsory_redundancy_guidance_for_staff_tcm6-38088.pdf

If that's current, it looks like about £22k!

Yorkie1

The link from jfdi goes to the compulsory redundancy terms. At this stage they will be looking for expressions of interest in a voluntary redundancy / early exit scheme. Those terms are slightly different.

You can find links to the information here:
http://www.civilservice.gov.uk/pensions/latest-news/compensation-scheme

From memory, I don't think that your department can offer anything less than this - it may possibly be more generous.

anoneemouse

Sounds like your redundancy would be based on "deemed" pay, rather than "actual" pay then.

1. You DO need to have the "what would I do IF?" scenario worked out in your mind either way:
a. if its based on actual pay
b. if its based on "deemed pay"

and decide IN ADVANCE "what to do ...if...."

Often - in the Civil Service - there is very very little notice indeed. Hence it's always wise to work out ALL the likely scenarios and what you would do in the case of each of them. That way, then even if you are given literally 1 day to make up your mind in, your mind has already been made up and you can say "I'll take that option".

Do bear in mind that people are only allowed a maximum of £6,000 in savings/money in the bank account and after that point is reached then the DWP will start paying less benefit accordingly (that is - if you end up unemployed for a while after the redundancy).

On £22,000 you would have the "surplus" over and above that £6,000 + whatever savings you already have taken into account when assessing what benefit you were due for.

In other words, if you can walk out the door straight back in through the door of another employer then you get to keep the £22,000. If you have to spend months languishing on the Dole Queue then it would be the DWP (and not yourself) that would get the benefit of much of your redundancy payment (if you stayed unemployed for longer than 6 months) and it wouldn't therefore really matter how much you got in that sense (as you appear to be single).

njm123

If it's early exit - rather than voluntary redundancy the department can offer what they like, it might be actual or deemed (23k) pay, and may be on different terms to any voluntary or compulsary redundancy package. In your case as you've been there 9 years either redundancy package will be 9 months at the deemed rate.

My advice would be to find out what the AO job really is NOW, you're older and wiser than when you tried it last - it might not be as stressful as you think and it'll be a lot less stressful that being unemployed for potentially a long time, £280 a month is not a lot to live on. Also start seriously looking at what other non-CS jobs are available where you live, is there anything you realistically would get.

If you really can't stand applying for the AO job - see what they offer in the early exit, if thats more generous than the redundancy terms and there's no chance of a few more months at the AA level take it. If you can hold out for a few more months at the AA job I'd do so and look for another job whilst your working, at worse you'll get a few months more pay in your pocket before redundancy kicks in and you might even find a job you like.

sammyjammy

I don't know how you've worked out the payrise but you will get an increase of a minimum of 10% of your pay on promotion. Would you consider dropping your hours slightly to offset the additional pressures you think you would feel, you can find a calculator on the intranet to tell you the affect of this.

If you were an AO 6 years ago then things have changed greatly in that time, you might actually find you enjoy it.

You would be entitled to JSA contributory based for six months but after that the redundancy payment would be taken into account.

Lastly the deemed pay is correct for you to work out the redundancy on but you would use the gross pay so if its £21k the amount would be 21,000/12*9 or around £15,750 dependant on your actual service. Remember as well just because you apply it doesn't mean they will let you go, the needs of the department come first and geographical factors may come into it.

*Vikki*

Hi all thanks for your replies, the amount I have been offered is £17500. If I apply I will know if I am successful 17/02/12 and if successful I will leave 11/05/12. Think I am going to apply for it, but worried mostly about what I am going to do for a job if successful after May 12. As there is just nothing out there. I could stay as an AA as they do still require some, numbers not given and for how long they don't know. But in the end they will do away with the grade. But I read then it would be voluntary redundancy which I think looks to be the same pay out as this 'early exit' scheme. But id be employed for longer so would get more money? Just dunno what to do...

bluenose1

If you really can't face the thought of the AO grade I would be tempted just to stay as an AA as long as you can. As you say you will then have the benefit of the extra months pay you receive for working.
The voluntary scheme won'tbe any less than a month for every year. Plus who knows policies may change and they decide they do need AA's in the long term.
Wouldn't jump the way the job Market is.
Good luck

*Vikki*

Thank you bluenose1 thats what I am thinking of doing, just staying as I am. Parents keep saying its an offer ill never get again but then I will be out of work.