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Funny I had this conversation with a police officer a few years back, they'd just taken someone to the magistrates court for this and lost. They had gone for a charge of driving without due care and attention and the person had argued that they were paying attention and had decided that this person was unlikely to change lanes and that staying where they were was less risky than performing four lane changes in order to achieve the same result.
The magistrate agreed and informed the officer that they should have pulled over the middle lane abuser for driving without due care and attention, and it would have been different if this driver had, for example, changed lanes to the left to overtake, then pulled out in front of the middle lane user because there was another vehicle in the left hand lane.
Yes I do realise that as a magistrate's decision it's not precedent setting.0 -
Just for the record some folks do like to drive at 80+ in the 40s ;|
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/Fife/article/18784/report-of-atrocious-speeding-at-scene-of-2004-kirkcaldy-tragedy.html0 -
Is there anything about the fact that I've referred to the Highway Code several times, acknowledged what is does and does not have to say about this situation, recognised the difference between the Highway Code and the law, and suggested how its advice is sometimes not so helpful in dealing with scenarios where other road users are not following it, that gives you the impression that I'm not familiar with it?
You give the impression you are not familiar with Rules 267 and 268.0 -
Put it this way, I'd expect to get pulled over if the police saw me overtake on the left.
That's a possibility - not sure how likely - and I'd be quite prepared to discuss it with them. Or they may pull over the driver who was in the wrong lane. If I exceeded the speed limit in the process of passing, I'd certainly expect to be pulled over. I can't imagine having much luck explaining my decision if my reason for deciding to go against HC advice was simply to allow me to travel illegally fast.If I approach someone in lane 2 and I'm in lane one, I will GENERALLY move out, flash etc.
That's another option. In general I prefer to avoid that much interaction with another driver. I would tend to favour the option that gets the hazard dealt with as quickly and efficiently as possible. Others may have different preferences. I don't have any interest in trying to educate other drivers I encounter.Just flying through on the left leaves you open to the car suddenly moving in on you when the driver wakes up!
As with a previous post, I don't know what you imagine when you say, "just flying through", but for me that phrase does not invoke an image of careful consideration and assessment prior to committing.Funny I had this conversation with a police officer a few years back, they'd just taken someone to the magistrates court for this and lost. They had gone for a charge of driving without due care and attention and the person had argued that they were paying attention and had decided that this person was unlikely to change lanes and that staying where they were was less risky than performing four lane changes in order to achieve the same result.
Interesting.DirectDebacle wrote: »You give the impression you are not familiar with Rules 267 and 268.
From what I've said, I don't think anyone could accuse me of not realising that passing on the left as I've described is contrary to HC advice. I can see how I might have given the impression that I'm prepared to consider going against HC advice in certain circumstance (because I am), but not how I might have given the impression hat I'm not familiar with it.0 -
That's another option. In general I prefer to avoid that much interaction with another driver. I would tend to favour the option that gets the hazard dealt with as quickly and efficiently as possible. Others may have different preferences. I don't have any interest in trying to educate other drivers I encounter.
If other road users appear to be unaware of your presence and intentions then you should take steps to make them aware.
Hazards must always be dealt with in the safest way possible. Quick and efficient may or may not be applicable but will always be secondary to safety.
It can be reckless and irresponsible to ignore the rules set by the Highway Code, without good reason. Particularly rules designed to promote safe driving, in this case motorways.
In what way is your method safer than that recommended in the Highway Code.
My opinion is that if the rules are followed and attempts to make the blocking driver aware are ignored then the worst that can happen is your journey time is extended.
If your method goes wrong the worst that can happen is almost unimaginable. Remember the tragedy on the M5 last month?0 -
The M5 tragedy was nothing to do with undertaking and everything to do with people driving too close to each other in thick fog, the comparison is misleading and irrelevant.
Chances are some of that bunching was caused by a middle lane moron creating an unnecessary obstruction.0 -
The M5 tragedy was nothing to do with undertaking
I still think it was someone tootling onto the motorway too slowly, possibly without lights on, in the fog..... Time will tell (maybe), but I fear it might get hijacked by the "anti-increase speed limit on motorways" crowd.“I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to make an a** of yourself.”
<><><><><><><><><<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Don't forget to like and subscribe \/ \/ \/0 -
The M5 tragedy was nothing to do with undertaking and everything to do with people driving too close to each other in thick fog, the comparison is misleading and irrelevant.
Chances are some of that bunching was caused by a middle lane moron creating an unnecessary obstruction.
As far as I know the cause of that crash has not yet been determined. I was making no comparison but pointing out that accidents on motorways can be very serious indeed. Something to bear in mind when executing a risky manoeuvre such as overtaking on the left.
If you disagree contribute to the debate and give your view as to how overtaking on the left on motorways, against the advice given in the H.C. is such a good idea.0 -
DirectDebacle wrote: »If other road users appear to be unaware of your presence and intentions then you should take steps to make them aware.
Why do you say that? If they're using their mirrors and are aware of their surroundings, they'll be aware of my presence. If they're not using their mirrors and aren't aware of their surroundings, the first they're going to know of me is as I appear in their field of view ahead of them.
The risk then, is that unaware of my presence and without looking first, they arbitrarily choose to change out of the lane they have seemed perfectly content in for the whole time I've seen them, for no apparent reason, precisely in the very brief period between when I'm past the point of being able to brake to avoid them and before I'm able to accelerate to avoid them. I wouldn't pass them unless I thought the chance of them doing that was negligible. I wouldn't pass someone on the right unless I thought the chance of them doing that was negligible either. But the chance is never zero, whichever side you pass on.
And there's a hard shoulder to use in extremis.
Do you take particular steps to make drivers aware of your presence when you overtake conventionally, on the right?DirectDebacle wrote: »In what way is your method safer than that recommended in the Highway Code.
Where does the Highway Code talk about dealing with lone drivers in the wrong lane (as distinct from queues and heavy traffic)?DirectDebacle wrote: »My opinion is that if the rules are followed and attempts to make the blocking driver aware are ignored then the worst that can happen is your journey time is extended.
Well certainly. I could avoid the risk of any overtakee driving into me by never passing anyone, and the worst that would happen would be my journey time being extended. I do think there's some misunderstanding of the level of risk I'm prepared to take here (or I am assessing the risks of different situations differently to other people). As I said earlier, I consider the risk here (in cases where I would decide to pass) considerably less than the risk I have to manage every day driving in high-speed formation rush hour traffic.
It seems very artificial to consider them a blocking driver. What are they blocking? The lane I've chosen to drive in is clear, because they've chosen to drive in a different lane. I'll obviously want to look ahead to see if there's some problem in lane 1 that's caused them to move into lane 2. But beyond that, I don't see any need for us to have anything further to do with each other.0 -
DirectDebacle wrote: »If you disagree contribute to the debate and give your view as to how overtaking on the left on motorways, against the advice given in the H.C. is such a good idea.
Already have, read my previous posts in this very thread.0
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