Rights at University?

jgraham95

fluffnutter wrote: »

This is the way things will go regarding university courses anyway. It's increasingly a consumer-led world and students will start expecting something special for the £9K a year they're having to fork out. Which (magazine) has recently indicated that it's going to be launching an academic section of its consumer rights investigations whereby it rates establishments and courses for things like quality of teaching, ease of finding a job afterwards, starting salary etc.

That's progress for you.

I'd advise you to try a concerted approach jgraham. That is, get together with all your fellow students and present your arguments to the university authorities. TBH, if you're hoping to receive financial compensation for this, you'll probably need specialised legal advice.

we have tried that approach to find that its nothing that will get sorted in our time at university.

NeilF3485 wrote: »

On a more serious note.

What would you want to be compensated for? Am I right that you don't pay tuition fees in Scotland?

If so, then how would any compensation be quantified anyway? Would it be four years worth of accommodation/cost of living payments to enable you to go and do another 4 year degree somewhere else?

The first 3 years were "as described" it seems, so presumably just 1 years cost of living as compensation?

Just trying to understand what you would be looking for IF you could take some action

no we do pay for it but we get a certain number of years paid for initially. also neil im looking for the compensation on terms of the fees paid for my course so i can go to a decent uni to study a course that covers whats in the degree's title.

Andy_L wrote: »

Lots of generic computing stuff has an application to security/forensics. Are the remaining 4thyear units going to be security/forensics heavy?

no its not going to be security/forensics heavy. only 1 out of 5 modules will b security/forensics based for 4th year. Alot of what we done so far will have nothing to do with the security side either. likes of learning to create SQL databases and creating websites has nothing to do with anything we require.

shegirl: we have done 1 module so far that covers a very brief overview of security. so next to nothing

Andy_L

jgraham95 wrote: »

. Alot of what we done so far will have nothing to do with the security side either. likes of learning to create SQL databases and creating websites has nothing to do with anything we require.

If you want to ferret around in a database to find evidence of wrongdoing then I'd of thought knowing how databases are built would be fairly essential, In the same way to do secure websites you'd need to know how to create an (unsecure) one

What did the inital blurb about the degree say? My expectation would be that computer forensics would be a post-grad Masters qualification building on general, bachelors level, knowledge.

jgraham95

Andy_L wrote: »

If you want to ferret around in a database to find evidence of wrongdoing then I'd of thought knowing how databases are built would be fairly essential, In the same way to do secure websites you'd need to know how to create an (unsecure) one

What did the inital blurb about the degree say? My expectation would be that computer forensics would be a post-grad Masters qualification building on general, bachelors level, knowledge.

it was sold to us as a intense security honors where we would build up knowledge of systems and services during 2nd year then 3rd would dive into security principles such as encryption and so forth to follow into pen testing and advanced security principles in 4th year. none of which has happened.
i agree that to a certain extent a general knowledge needs to be known but then it was never sold as purely a general degree. it was sold as a specific degree purely build around security. Once I walk out with this honors degree Ill have been taught hardly any security and would of just as well of left at the end of 3rd year.

WhiteOwl

jgraham95 wrote: »

it was sold to us as a intense security honors where we would build up knowledge of systems and services during 2nd year then 3rd would dive into security principles such as encryption and so forth to follow into pen testing and advanced security principles in 4th year. none of which has happened.
i agree that to a certain extent a general knowledge needs to be known but then it was never sold as purely a general degree. it was sold as a specific degree purely build around security. Once I walk out with this honors degree Ill have been taught hardly any security and would of just as well of left at the end of 3rd year.

I assume since the course was 4 years long the first year was a foundation year?

Speaking from experience my university course was planned out like this:

1st Foundation year: teaches you the very basics of computing, mainly for students coming straight out of a levels with little advanced computer knowledge. Databases, networking, programming.

2nd year: teaches you advanced networking techniques, forensics (the type used in crime scenes), crime and law.

3rd year: teaches you advanced computer forensic techniques like recovering data from hard drives.

4rd year: mainly based on security and computer forensics, used specialized operating systems to penetrate networks and secure networks.

This was at the University of Derby in England, its a good choice for computer forensics.

Honestly you should get everyone in your class who is disappointed and then argue with the university, you might not get what you want but you could fight to change it from happening to other students.

pulliptears

I started a Foundation Degree in the first year they were introduced. I was told I'd do my first 2 years in my local college (overseen by the local uni) then head to a Local Uni I wont name here for the final year. The course was a BA Hons in Graphic And Digital Design and I, along with 20 fellow students, were told that we would move straight on to the 3rd year at the Uni on the Graphic Design Degree Course.

Came as a bit of a shocker when part way into the second year we were told that the final year course had changed, no longer would my degree be in Graphic and Digital Design but Entrepreneurship in the Creative and Cultural Industries. After several !!!!!!'s we banded together and argued the toss with the Uni who claimed they were well within their rights to do that.

Final year came along and 20 of us applied for the Graphics Degree course and only 2 for the entrepreneurship course. Unsurprisingly we were all turned down for 3rd year places, some offered 1st year some offered nothing at all yet all were offered 3rd year entrepreneurship....suspicious? I was actually told in my interview, and I quote "At your age you would be better studying entrepreneurship than Graphics" I was 35. In the end we all went to other Uni's, all got 3rd year places and all passed. I toyed with the idea of taking them on over the discrimination more than anything else but decided in the end to concentrate on passing my 3rd year and proving them wrong - which I did.

I don't trust Universities, I don't trust that they will supply what they offer way back in year 1. Concentrate on getting a pass if this is your last year, then if you still feel strongly group together and take them on.

jaxjax123

As far as I am aware if enough of you complain on the satisfaction survey the uni will be bothered because that goes towards their grading. So get on to your student reps and rally round everyone one you can to get those surveys filled in.

Flyboy152

fluffnutter wrote: »

I know I'm going to sound like an old fusspot... but aren't people at university supposed to be among the most intelligent of our youngsters? Why, then, CAN'T ANYONE OF THEM WRITE PROPERLY?

That was my first thought. I haven't a flipping clue what the OP is about.

pinkshoes

What reason did the University give for changing the contents of the final year of the course?

Owain_Moneysaver

jgraham95 wrote: »

it was sold to us as a intense security honors where we would build up knowledge of systems and services during 2nd year then 3rd would dive into security principles such as encryption and so forth to follow into pen testing and advanced security principles in 4th year. none of which has happened.

But you said above:

well no we got told up until 3rd year it would b a very general computing degree with 1 or 2 security modules but in 4th year it would be completely security based

That doesn't correspond.

So how many actual units in computer security and forensics were you promised, and how many has the university failed to deliver? The university regulations almost certainly will allow them to alter the provision of units as they see fit and providing they offer the units you need to complete your degree I don't see you have much legal recourse. Presumably you matriculated for the degree of Bachelor of Computer Science and that is the degree with which you will graduate?

Why not see if you can do some additional study with another institution (such as the OU M899 course) and get that credit accepted towards your current degree?

ThumbRemote

It does correspond. Most specialised computing degrees cover the generic basics in the first few years and build on these with the specialisms towards the end. It sounds like 2 years generic, a bit specialised in the third year and highly specialised in the final year. Except it hasn't been.

My guess would be that the university had one or two staff members who specialised in the security area, they've left to be replaced by others who have different fields.

Though as others have said, I'd get proper legal advice on this one. The university conditions and rules will be long and complex, the university administration will be used to brushing off students. See if you can get a free appointment with a solicitor to discuss the case.