MBNA Rejection - Ticked Box

downy2008

Hi,

Just had a rejection from MBNA re my credit card - sent me the application form, and it clearly shows that I had ticked the box. Also shows that I ticked yes on the website that I purchased it from. Interestingly, where I ticked the box, it states

"Payment Protection Cover is designed to protect your ability to make repayments to your MBNA credit card in the event that you are unable to work due to accident, sickness or involuntary unemployment. Valuable life cover, up to £15,000, is also included. We strongly recommend that you take out this cover. For cover, just tick the Yes box"

Therefore, I ticked the box. In my rejection letter, it states that "you have not provided evidence that you had other adequate means of protecting your repayments in the event of prolonged sickness or unemployment. I have reached the view that, given your circumstances, the PPI policy that you purchased provided you with cover which would have been beneficial to you. I have seen no evidence of anything which would have changed your decision to purchase the PPI policy"

However, on the application form, it clearly states that I am a civil servant (with six months full pay/six months half pay), and that I am a homeowner with zero mortgage on a property valued at the time of the application at £200,000. Therefore, the adjucator is incorrect to state that I did not have any other means of protecting my payments (or provide any evidence of such). If I was sick, I would have been unable to claim because of my sick pay benefits, and if I was made redundant, I could have used my mortgage free property to pay off my creditors.

As this is MBNA's final decision (I made the complaint over the phone, and thus was not asked to provide the reasons above - I was not asked any reasons for the complaint), does anybody consider that it is worth my time taking this to FOS? I think that the fact they "strongly recommended" that I purchase the PPI does give me a slight chance....

Thanks in advance

Downy

di3004

Hi there

Sometimes they will change a final decision, if you write back with further details that you may have missed, or if you have anything to say about the reasons of why they rejected - write back and ask them if they will reconsider by 14 days.

As this was purchased online, it was one of those where you can opt out of I think, but some are already pre ticked and you have the opportunity to opt out, although this is not always made clear.

Its also been known that if you opt out, the application will not allow you to have completed the form (unless it was ticked for), of a phone call was made afterwards.

In the final decision they should confirm if your eligible to complain to the FOS or not and enclose the leaflet details of how to complain to them.

So if you decide to want to ask them to reconsider, do so in writing and ask if they can let you know by 14 days, but try to give them as much info as possible.
If you hear nothing or if they do not change the decision, complain to the FOS.

Good luck.

downy2008

Hi Di,

Thanks for your reply - just decided to go straight to FOS, spoke to them today, so just gonna leave it with them...you never know, they might uphold it, so fingers crossed

Downy

di3004

downy2008 wrote: »

Hi Di,

Thanks for your reply - just decided to go straight to FOS, spoke to them today, so just gonna leave it with them...you never know, they might uphold it, so fingers crossed

Downy

Good for you, fingers crossed.

downy2008

I havee been doing a little bit of digging around the internet, and, because MBNA refer to my "web experience" etc when I made the application, I decided to see if I could find MBNA's website as it was in May 2001 when I took out the card, and I did find the actual webpage from web archive...on their website (sorry, I'm not allowed to post links yet), it has a whole page on the advantages of taking out PPI, a lot of which I believe to be not just misleading but genuinely fraudulent...for example;

it asked..."Are self-employed people covered?" and replies "Payment Protection Cover provides cover for self-employed as well as employed people. This valuable cover also protects contract workers"

it then goes on to ask..."Will payment protection cover pay out in addition to my sick pay?"...answer "Yes. Payment Protection Cover is an additional benefit to repay your MBNA credit card. This does not affect any employer or State Benefits you may be entitled to."

My understanding of PPI, and I am sure that someone will correct me, is that you will not be covered if you are self-employed, and nor would it be payable if I was to receive sick pay from my employer. Interestingly enough, MBNA's website, by 2005, makes no reference whatsoever to PPI...did they realise that they should not have been selling it around this time?

Therefore, when I submit my complaint to the FOS, I shall be including a copy of this webpage, and asking FOS to consider this as part of the whole evidence....

Downy

magpiecottage

downy2008 wrote: »

on their website (sorry, I'm not allowed to post links yet), it has a whole page on the advantages of taking out PPI, a lot of which I believe to be not just misleading but genuinely fraudulent...for example;

it asked..."Are self-employed people covered?" and replies "Payment Protection Cover provides cover for self-employed as well as employed people. This valuable cover also protects contract workers"

This is not fraudulent. It details the terms of their contract at the time. Not that it is relevant to you because you were a civil servant.

it then goes on to ask..."Will payment protection cover pay out in addition to my sick pay?"...answer "Yes. Payment Protection Cover is an additional benefit to repay your MBNA credit card. This does not affect any employer or State Benefits you may be entitled to."

So it would pay out if you were sick.

My understanding of PPI, and I am sure that someone will correct me, is that you will not be covered if you are self-employed, and nor would it be payable if I was to receive sick pay from my employer.

The decision about what benefits to pay, and in what circumstances, under an insurance policy is primarily a commercial one by the lender.
There are certain rules to stop you gambling on somebody else suffering a misfortune but they would not affect PPI.

Interestingly enough, MBNA's website, by 2005, makes no reference whatsoever to PPI...did they realise that they should not have been selling it around this time?

They might have decided they did not want to offer cover on that basis any longer. However, they would need to either maintain existing benefits for existing customers or contact them and clearly explain the change.

Therefore, when I submit my complaint to the FOS, I shall be including a copy of this webpage, and asking FOS to consider this as part of the whole evidence

If you are going to take the matter to FOS I think providing a copy of the webpage would be fair.

downy2008

Thanks for your reply, Magpie, I was hoping that you would take a look at this....my whole point is this...they cannot argue that this was a non-advised sale when, firstly, they wax so very lyrically about their PPI product on their website, and, secondly, then proceed to "strongly recommend" that I tick the box for PPI on the CCA...I cannot seem to access the actual application webpage, so I am not able to comment on anything that was shown to me there...surely any reasonable person, when reading the website and reading the CCA TOGETHER would be lead to believe that this product was "invaluable", when in reality, it was not....In 2001, financial institutions were not the pariahs that they are today, and most reasonable people would have put a lot of faith in the words that they read on both the website and the CCA. The FOS have advised me that ticking the box is not, in itself, reason to reject a complaint of misselling. They will look at the entire circumstances of the event, and come to their conclusions...However, MBNA cannot argue that this was a non-advised sale, when in reality, it was...you state that the because they state that they would pay out if I was sick, then it would pay out...but would it? Others on this forum are quite clear that the MBNA policies sold at that time would NOT have paid out in these circumstances...and the fact that they ceased to advertise this product at all by 2005 would indicate that something had lead them to realise this "invaluable" insurance was really not "invaluable" at all...

downy2008

Just got a letter this morning from the FOS, advising me that MBNA are going to make me an offer, without prejudice or admission of liability. Absolutely amazing, best Christmas present ever. I don't know the exact figures yet, but MBNA will be contacting me in the near future with an offer, based on the general approach of the FOS...timeline of complaint;

19th October - telephone call to MBNA

10th November - complaint rejected

22nd November - sent forms to FOS

24th December - letter from FOS telling me that MBNA would be making me an offer.

Happy Christmas to everyone, I will be debt free in 2012! Amazing to look back at my financial position in 2008, when I owed £27,000. By November 2011, I had paid back £17,000 via CCCS, and now the entire amount will be paid back.

I will never, ever owe another penny to anyone, and much grateful thanks for the invaluable advice that I have read on this forum. What you guys do is changing a lot of peoples' lives in an extremely positive way, and I am so grateful for everything

Downy

dilus

downy2008 wrote: »

Just got a letter this morning from the FOS, advising me that MBNA are going to make me an offer, without prejudice or admission of liability. Absolutely amazing, best Christmas present ever. I don't know the exact figures yet, but MBNA will be contacting me in the near future with an offer, based on the general approach of the FOS...timeline of complaint;

19th October - telephone call to MBNA

10th November - complaint rejected

22nd November - sent forms to FOS

24th December - letter from FOS telling me that MBNA would be making me an offer.

Happy Christmas to everyone, I will be debt free in 2012! Amazing to look back at my financial position in 2008, when I owed £27,000. By November 2011, I had paid back £17,000 via CCCS, and now the entire amount will be paid back.

I will never, ever owe another penny to anyone, and much grateful thanks for the invaluable advice that I have read on this forum. What you guys do is changing a lot of peoples' lives in an extremely positive way, and I am so grateful for everything

Downy

WTG downy2008 :T
Given me some good pointers there for a complaint I have just started with MBNA, if it gets turned down, many thanks