Jeremy Vine - Talking about Didcot & PPC's this lunch time!

sarahg1969

bobrey wrote: »

Whilst at present it can be argued that calling parking charges "fines" is incorrect we all need to be aware of the likely effect of the draft "Protection of Freedom Bill" and in particular clause 56 of Shedule 4 therein. If this is passed ,as seems likely, this will introduce measures which will make registered owners liable under law for any parking charges which parking management companies issue. To object to this measure, lobbied by the British Parking Association, sign up to e-petition 6342 at the Direct Gov website. The draft bill has received its second reading in the House of Lords this week.
Under this proposed legislation the BPA will have legal powers to get details direct from DVLA and pursue vehicle owners for "parking charges"ie fines by any other term.

They will never be fines. Even the police and councils can't fine people. PPCs aren't going be given the opportunity to do so.

Trebor16

Local Authorities and the police can issue fixed penalty notices but they do so because there is a statute that allows them to. Therein lies the difference between them and the PPC's.

oldone_2

If this goes through, it is a certainty that PPC's will change the wording on their invoices to say in very large letters something like

"As the registered keeper you are legally responsible for the payment of this debt."

Almost certainly this will frighten more people into paying than do so at the moment, which is of course what the Parking Industry want.

People who find their way to forums such as this will still receive the same advice to ignore the threats, so nothing will really change.

SodG24

Good grief - how poor can the BBC get. They clearly haven't understood my complaint given they provide a link to PENALTY change notices which has nothing to do with PPCs !!!!! Another complaint being complied today !

"Thanks for contacting us regarding BBC Radio 2's 'Jeremy Vine'.
I understand that you're unhappy with the discussion on the programme in regards to private parking.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/WhereYouLive/StreetsParkingCleaningAndLighting/DG_10024872
The above link has more information on these parking violations, I have also included two links from the Oxford English Dictionaries which explain the terminology and use of invoices as well as fines.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fine--2?rskey=c6hWw3&result=2
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/invoice
Please note that we don't accept responsibility for external websites.
Nevertheless, we’re guided by the feedback we receive and I can assure you I've registered your complaint on our audience log. This is a daily report of audience feedback that's made available to all BBC staff, including members of the BBC Executive Board, channel controllers and other senior managers.
The audience logs are seen as important documents that can help shape decisions about future programming and content.
Thanks for taking the time to contact us.
[FONT=&quot]Finally, I have attached an invitation from the Head of BBC Audience Services, asking you to participate in our customer survey. We would welcome your views on our service.[/FONT]"

esmerobbo

SodG24 wrote: »

Good grief - how poor can the BBC get. They clearly haven't understood my complaint given they provide a link to PENALTY change notices which has nothing to do with PPCs !!!!! Another complaint being complied today !

Maybe they should talk to Anne Robinson over on watchdog!

Numpties!

The_Slithy_Tove

SodG24 wrote: »

"I understand that you're unhappy with the discussion on the programme in regards to private parking.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/WhereYouLive/StreetsParkingCleaningAndLighting/DG_10024872
The above link has more information on these parking violations"

That demonstrates a pretty shocking lack of understanding. They may as well have posted a link to Walls Ice Cream, as it would have been just as relevant to PPCs.

SodG24

It's just occurred to me - BBC Audience Services is run by Capita .......... so is Equita who are effectively a private clamping company ( who also work on behalf of the DVLA ) ....... hmmmmmmm !!!!!!!!!!

Inflatable_Armadillo

SodG24 wrote: »

Good grief - how poor can the BBC get. They clearly haven't understood my complaint given they provide a link to PENALTY change notices which has nothing to do with PPCs !!!!! Another complaint being complied today !

"Thanks for contacting us regarding BBC Radio 2's 'Jeremy Vine'.
I understand that you're unhappy with the discussion on the programme in regards to private parking.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/WhereYouLive/StreetsParkingCleaningAndLighting/DG_10024872
The above link has more information on these parking violations, I have also included two links from the Oxford English Dictionaries which explain the terminology and use of invoices as well as fines.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fine--2?rskey=c6hWw3&result=2
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/invoice
Please note that we don't accept responsibility for external websites.
Nevertheless, we’re guided by the feedback we receive and I can assure you I've registered your complaint on our audience log. This is a daily report of audience feedback that's made available to all BBC staff, including members of the BBC Executive Board, channel controllers and other senior managers.
The audience logs are seen as important documents that can help shape decisions about future programming and content.
Thanks for taking the time to contact us.
[FONT=&quot]Finally, I have attached an invitation from the Head of BBC Audience Services, asking you to participate in our customer survey. We would welcome your views on our service.[/FONT]"

That is quite frankly an appalling reply! Not only does it show a lack of understanding and therefore poor research, which we knew already because the team on the Jeremy Vine show clearly missed the point at the time. I personally would not be too upset with that bit of the reply, we knew it had gone over their heads and they are no different from the majority who fall for the scam.

The bit I would be and I am livid about on your behalf, is the patronising and condescending nature of the reply in that they attach two dictionary links to the words invoice and fine!!!

Clearly, that given the link defines a 'fine' as "a sum of money exacted as a penalty by a court of law or other authority:" and "punish (someone) for an illegal or illicit act by making them pay a sum of money:" then they have made themselves look foolish because this actually supports your argument, as we know!

I would tell them that you found their reply very insulting and condescending and you were fully aware of what both the dictionary and legal definition of the words fine and invoice are, but clearly they must understand the definitions of the following words -

Authority - the right to act in a specified way, delegated from one person or organization to another:

Illegal - contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law:

Illicit - forbidden by law, rules, or custom:

I would ask them, given that this 'fine' is not issued by a court and it is neither an illegal or illicit act in UK law, to point out to you, as they know so much about the subject, exactly where and whom has granted the authority for this and any PRIVATE companies to issue a fine or penalty? Can they give you other examples, were private companies can issue 'fines' to people where no illegal or illicit act is committed in the eyes of current UK law?

I would end by saying that maybe they should speak to their colleagues in BBC Watchdog and take suitable legal advice before making such an ill-informed and flippant response to genuine concerns raised within your correspondence

Finally, I would hit them with this one -

Rigour - "the quality of being extremely thorough and careful:his analysis is lacking in rigour"

and maybe they should be more apply more rigour before replying in future?

Ezmondino

Quite keen to see the reply to the BBC and their response!

Zero_Gravitas

And this has now finally made it to the local paper in Didcot - the Didcot Herald

http://www.heraldseries.co.uk/news/9357715.A_tight_squeeze/?ref=mr

I've written to the editor explaining that these are not fines, etc, etc, and the appropriate response is to ignore, etc, etc, and put a note on the website. We'll see if there's any response.

Best Regards,

ZG