It seems poverty kills very sad

gailey_2

Saw on c4 news tonight and found this article

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/881136-married-couple-driven-to-commit-suicide-by-utter-poverty

Couple commited suicide as they were so poor and needed support.

There were a few other factors

both had mental health issues and learning difficulties

Their only child taken into care.

But it seemed they only got £57 a week not sure about housing benefit, council tax paid but would of thourght they be entitled to additional help.

C4 news said they walked 6miles every week to soup kitchen.
article said they dident have fridge and kept food in the shed.

Just sad they felt thats their only option

I do think in some cases in uk people take advantage of benefits but if someones in genuine need and falls through cracks is wrong.

zagfles

Don't see why they were only getting £57 a week, even income based JSA is about £106 a week for a couple, ESA would be more. Plus housing/council tax benefit etc which they should have been entitled to.

I imagine the problem was either an administrative one, or they didn't understand what benefits they were entitled to and how to apply/what they needed to do, as the benefits system is so incredibly complex.

Generali

I wonder if there's more to this story that is unreported. Things have to be pretty desperate for a 12y/o to be taken into care.

I feel sad for them, don't get me wrong. That anyone feels so hopeless that they commit suicide is terrible. Mental illness is very hard to live with and very hard to treat successfully. Thankfully treatments are improving over time.

Going4TheDream

Generali wrote: »

I wonder if there's more to this story that is unreported. Things have to be pretty desperate for a 12y/o to be taken into care.

I feel sad for them, don't get me wrong. That anyone feels so hopeless that they commit suicide is terrible. Mental illness is very hard to live with and very hard to treat successfully. Thankfully treatments are improving over time.

I believe there is - this was reported in one of my local papers - I believe it also shows a short interview with them explaining their difficulties.

Very tragic and very unnecessary and rather chilling given the cuts that may come in across the board.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/2011/11/08/bedworth-suicide-pact-couple-found-lying-side-by-side-92746-29739580/

vivatifosi

Generali wrote: »

I wonder if there's more to this story that is unreported. Things have to be pretty desperate for a 12y/o to be taken into care.

Learning difficulties are, imo, something this country could be better at dealing with. People with learning difficulties are often not aware that they have them and so it is easy to not receive enough benefits. And when you are on the front line, working with someone, you can't say "hey have you got learning difficulties, I can help you" (or something significantly more subtle but supportive). If they don't tick the box, no matter how much you know they should, you shut up and don't do anything, because that's your job and what you are told to do. Massive underclaiming results.

I've had long conversations with members of my family who are social workers on this subject. I don't understand why someone hasn't come up with a form of sheltered housing where a family can live together, but with structured intervention to make sure that the kids grow up ok. That doesn't happen (I've asked and apparently it would be seen as something the kids would be teased about), so if parents don't care the kids can be taken into care. The circumstances can indeed by tragic. LD parents are often very loving, there's nothing lacking on that front, its more of an issue that they may not appreciate the dangers of parenting (from allowing a child near an open fire to not feeding properly). The social workers I know hate taking the children of LD parents into care, its far more of a moral dilemma than dealing with heartless b**stards who deliberately harm their kids.

I've said before on the NP thread and I'll say it again, the safety net for LD is not what it should be and this recession is very scary for that particular group.

Joe_Bloggs

More of the same via Channel4
To get the best from the caring system you need an articulate advocate who can shake the lethargy out of those who could help.
J_B.

PasturesNew

My experience with the system is that nobody helps you, they just take weeks to tick some boxes before promising to send you some information, that you don't understand and it all gets hard and you're on your own.

Nobody actually sits down at the start and works out the situation, what's relevant, then takes ownership and gets everything claimed for, filling out the forms if necessary. Doing that from the start, in one go, would save hundreds of pounds and weeks of time in the long run.

You never get to speak to a person these days, it's all call centres, calls logged, packs sent out, unintelligible forms and complex questions where you're not sure what they're asking or why.

They expect you to ask for the right forms for what you can claim .... rather than somebody evaluating a situation and telling people what they can get. Then there are repeated forms/information to be filled out - and long waits.

There's no ownership of the claimant and no listening to/evaluating their circumstances to come up with the answers.

In the OP's case though, there's another discussion thread on MSE about this particular case and it seems as though he was an alcoholic and they weren't claiming for her because they thought she was about to be sectioned. So it's a complex one. She/they were even "hiding" at one point, away from their house.

But somebody knew they existed and should have "owned" their case.

gailey_2

I assumed they were under claiming but guess the systems so complex and some people play system and others dont. I know its in pipeline to simplify the benefits into one rather than several coming under a few different departments.

The news dident really give much detail, hated the way the comments on the metro article blamed the conservatives or the government.

I guess their maybe some negligance somewhere in fact that know one cared.

Maybe the social worker who took away the child for whatever reason should of assigned them a social worker as they fall under vunerable adults.

we dont know if they could read or write to apply for benefits they maybe eligible for.

weirdly a year ago they were interveiwed for documentry and said how much they were struggling.

with cuts in citiziens advice and more poeple requiring advice must be hard for them to have sought help.

In the news recently in uk, europe, usa.

soup kitchens and foodbanks are increasining even with working people.
The uk will have 98foodbanks all over the country.

few weeks ago in news more people die from cold, not heating their homes each year than die on roads shocked me.

Yet even wealthy pensioners like the queen get fuel credits!

Its all so screwed up right now with

unions striking
people protesting
austerity
low growth/redundancies
high living costs

just hope this sad case a wakeup call for soceity and the co-alition to acknowledge hard times and we need to look out for each other and support one another.

TruckerT

gailey wrote: »

just hope this sad case a wakeup call for soceity and the co-alition to acknowledge hard times and we need to look out for each other and support one another.

The veneer of civilisation is extremely thin, and the theory of evolution remains sound

TruckerT

neverdespairgirl

vivatifosi wrote: »

I've had long conversations with members of my family who are social workers on this subject. I don't understand why someone hasn't come up with a form of sheltered housing where a family can live together, but with structured intervention to make sure that the kids grow up ok. That doesn't happen (I've asked and apparently it would be seen as something the kids would be teased about), so if parents don't care the kids can be taken into care.

There are quite a few reasons why it's not done much. there are some similar sort of set-ups, but they tend to be for short to medium term, rather than long-term. They are intended for people to learn to be better parents, with support, rather than to be supported throughout childhood.

Firstly, it's incredibly, incredibly expensive. Secondly, it's an ethical nightmare - who is responsible for what? To what extent can adults be ordered around, and forced to obey rules and regulations? There are other problems, too.

We need to be careful not to swing too far the other way. This couple were actively avoiding the authorities. I don't want to live in a nanny state.

TruckerT

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

This couple were actively avoiding the authorities. I don't want to live in a nanny state.

I seem to recall from my 1950s schooldays that in ethnic Eskimo societies, it was normal for aged grandparents to walk away into the wilderness - i wonder if those rules still apply in the age of SnowMobiles and Satellite TV

Right now, I am actively considering making a Living Will (Advance Decision to Refuse Treatment) - when it happens, I will be happy to accept nature's decision that my time has come

TruckerT