MSE News: Confusion reigns as student fees fear takes hold

Lokolo

Onyourcase wrote: »

Thanks, That's perhaps the most fightening spreadsheet I've seen:eek: The amount the student has to pay back plus the amount that the taxpayer then has to payback ie amount outstanding after 30 years. Why is Martin backing this? Because he's not a student?
If this is such a good scheme, let's have it for mortgages as well! You don't have to pay if you can't afford it and it's wiped off after 30 years. Brilliant!

You realise the tax payer is substituting university costs currently? So if the student pays more... guess who pays less?

I would also look at the figures in todays terms, unless you are going to look at the salary predictions as well as the amount owed, and you'll notice that the amount you've paid back is not a lot.

Onyourcase

Of course the Tax Payer should pay, but as a TP I'd like to pay for fewer students.

Lokolo

Onyourcase wrote: »

Of course the Tax Payer should pay, but as a TP I'd like to pay for fewer students.

Wouldn't we all though

gadgetmind

Onyourcase wrote: »

Of course the Tax Payer should pay, but as a TP I'd like to pay for fewer students.

I have already thanked you, but it's not enough. The system is FUBAR because we insist on pushing too many people through degrees, and the degree system was *never* designed for this.

Some people are degree people and some people aren't. Once we accept this, we can start doing the best for *everyone*.

lynzpower

Lokolo wrote: »

Wouldn't we all though

I dont know would we?

I mean

If we look at many roles that UK needs

Would we rather have our own people do it
Or import people from abroad to do it?

Taxpayers have the choice, do you want to support the tuition of teachers, nursing staff, drs dentists social workers, planners, environmental health officers. Actually some of these receive no bursary or financial support aside form the potential that their course is "subsidised" ( if indeed it is)

Or would you prefer to import people from abroad to do these jobs?

Lokolo

lynzpower wrote: »

I dont know would we?

I mean

If we look at many roles that UK needs

Would we rather have our own people do it
Or import people from abroad to do it?

Taxpayers have the choice, do you want to support the tuition of teachers, nursing staff, drs dentists social workers, planners, environmental health officers. Actually some of these receive no bursary or financial support aside form the potential that their course is "subsidised" ( if indeed it is)

Or would you prefer to import people from abroad to do these jobs?

Er it isn't one or the other though, it can be a balance. As gadget says, there are TOO many going to university, not the fact people are.

gadgetmind

lynzpower wrote: »

Or would you prefer to import people from abroad to do these jobs?

Speaking as someone who employs a *lot* of grads, I'd personally prefer that the UK education system provided enough quality grads, but as an employer, we've been *very* happy with those I've employed from Greece, Spain, Poland, etc.

We just want good people; if the UK provides them, then great, but if the UK continues this sad scramble to mediocrity, we'll adapt and survive, either by employing people from elsewhere, or from expanding capacity overseas and reducing it in the UK.

Any universities or politicians who think that employers will take whatever's churned out by our deeply flawed system are sadly mistaken; we'd rather have an empty seat than the wrong backside in it, and the education system really should take the same approach IMO.

Onyourcase

gadgetmind wrote: »

I have already thanked you, but it's not enough. The system is FUBAR because we insist on pushing too many people through degrees, and the degree system was *never* designed for this.

Some people are degree people and some people aren't. Once we accept this, we can start doing the best for *everyone*.

I'm with you on this. We need a system that encourages the right balance of people going to University and not going to university. As a society we should pay for all that through general taxation. Not all graduates want or get high paid jobs. Students don't have a debt to society that needs repaying.

Onyourcase

In a parallel universe the same logic could be applied to the NHS > If you go to hospital for an operation you come out with the cost of the treatment as a debt. Don't worry though, although it's index linked, you won't have to pay unless you earn more than £21,000 a year and the debt will be cancelled after 30 years. The good news is hospitals are going to expand and be encouraged to give people whatever operation they fancy.
Just listen to those idiots that don't understand the figures and calculations, they are saying "Why don't we go back to the old NHS, where only a few had operations and everyone paid through taxation!"
Yes. Please. Just listen!

Oldernotwiser

lynzpower wrote: »

I dont know would we?

I mean

If we look at many roles that UK needs

Would we rather have our own people do it
Or import people from abroad to do it?

Taxpayers have the choice, do you want to support the tuition of teachers, nursing staff, drs dentists social workers, planners, environmental health officers. Actually some of these receive no bursary or financial support aside form the potential that their course is "subsidised" ( if indeed it is)

Or would you prefer to import people from abroad to do these jobs?

The question is, though, do all these people need to have a degree?

When non advanced FE was of a better standard, most of the jobs you mention were not graduate professions; that's the scandal.