Advice needed: Flatmate and boyfriend problem

kittiwoz

As far as the subletting problem goes my experience (which is of the landlord for this house and a friend's landlord) is that they don't care provided they get their rent OK and if you ask will give their permission for you to sublet and tell you to just sort it out among youself because he can't be bothered changing the contract. Having th landlords permission would make the subletting legal.

However if the landlord knew the boyfriend was living there he would then be obliged to inform the council and he would end up paying council tax on the whole property with just as 25% single person discount as the rest of you are discounted persons being students. If you do not tell the landlord he potentially could kick you out for breaking your tenancy agreement though I think he probably would not. However all the tenants would be party to a fraud in not telling the Council about your extra housemate. What would happen if the council were to find out I don't know. Possibly they would prosecute you for fraud but I think it is more likely that they would just go after the boyfriend for the money owed. That's just a guess. I don't really see how the council would find out though unless he did something dumb like register to vote at that address or apply for benefits.

I agree that it isn't fair they each pay half the rent of the other tenants though. They are going to be using the bathroom, kitchen and sitting room as much as everybody else. I would work out how much it would be each if it were divided equally between everyone in the house and how much everyone would pay under your housemate's proposed scheme and then split the difference. Having an extra person in the house is going to cause inconvenience to everone living there (more washing up, queues for the bathroom) so the rent should go down for all of you, not just the girl who will be sharing her room.

rhig

If your landlord does not check the house a lot and the boyfriend does not have too many of his things around then you are likely to be fine, I would be surprised if you were in any trouble with he council. However I wouldn’t do the deal unless it saves you money as it’s unfair for them to take up more space/use more utilities than you do.

You need to make sure they agree that their say in house matters only counts for one person and that they understand having an extra person in the house is an inconvenience. Your friend’s signature on the contract means she is responsible for her part of the rent whatever happens between them so that is no more of a problem with two people in the room.

If the guy is a nice guy it may even be a good thing as he will probably recognize your doing him a favour and help out more with house costs etc. So long as you have nothing other than your contract in writing you can threaten to tell your landlord/council about him if there are any problems - if you say the guy moved in with your friend then you would remove any chance of a good reference for your friend from your landlord and it shouldn’t affect your own reference.

Snow_Angel

I'd like to point out that if you do all agree to this arrangement (and indeed it is doing you and him a favour re : money saving etc.), you'll have to remember that once you agree to this and he moves in, your house then becomes his home too. In periods of strain throughout the year, which inevitably occur due to the stresses of university and having to live in close proximity to others, do not use his presence in the house as fuel for an argument "e.g. it's none of your business as you don't officially live here" etc.
Once you have welcomed him into the house, that is exactly what he should feel.....welcome. And he shouldn't become a 2nd class citizen in his own home.
It's just a thought.

rhig

I would disagree with Snow Angel, aav would be perfectly within her rights to consider him as a guest and not a tenant, his agreement to pay half the rent does not allow him any say other than that of his girlfriend if she is taking him in without providing recompense for the extra strain on the houses resources. The girl is allowing her boyfriend to evade tax as well as increasing the chance of problems with the landlord, other tenants, the local council and university accommodations service (assuming this is a registered student house). The landlord of the property will have a HMO license for 4 tenants and this could result in litigation against him and the loss of his license to let to students.

If the standard HMO contract is in place - where a separate contract per room is signed by the occupant then avv would most probably be free from any responsibility although the university may inform other landlords of the incident making it more difficult for her to find student accommodation in future years. This is a worst case scenario but the avv should be aware of the legal and moral issues with subletting a student house.

Personally I would probably allow a sublet in the student house I live in if it was under the radar and the people were considerate with household costs and personal space and I didn’t feel any loss of utility however aav should not be under the impression that an act of generosity can’t be reversed, if other tenants had a problem with the boyfriend later in the year it would not be unreasonable for him to be asked to leave and for the girl to pay her rent in full.

Snow_Angel wrote:

Once you have welcomed him into the house, that is exactly what he should feel.....welcome. And he shouldn't become a 2nd class citizen in his own home.
It's just a thought.

Personally I believe anyone who evades tax they can afford to pay should be treated as a second class citizen by default, this man has no dependants and is withholding money he should be paying in order to fund the public services he is given.

I'm really not trying to be a spoilsport though I can see how grumpy this post must make me appear :embarasse

edit: If you do go ahead with the plan ensure the boyfriend does not use the address for work correspondance or to purchase financial services, this would significantly increase the chances of him being caught.

MercilessKiller

rhig wrote:

Personally I believe anyone who evades tax they can afford to pay should be treated as a second class citizen by default, this man has no dependants and is withholding money he should be paying in order to fund the public services he is given.

I disagree completely. Though I'm not in a situation like this I was thinking of an example when reading the post and though a lot of people are guilty, some i don't think its fair to criticise.

Lets say Miss X had just lost her job in neverland and wanted to move in with Mr T in.. err.. Manchester..

Mr T lives with some students (who like Miss X) and tell her that its fine for her to live there until the end of their contract.. (1 to 9 months type thing).. until she gets life sorted and Mr T and Miss X move somewhere (where Miss X will then pay all council tax etc...)

In this type of scenario I wouldn't class Miss X as a second class citizen at all!!!! If people are being nice and accepting her, though not paying council tax is illegal, if its temporary and suitable for her situation I don't see why she's a bad person?

(Saying all that, i cant think of many other situations like it but hey, just want to try and show not everything is cut dry like that... Strict Liability is unfortunately quite unfair.. think of someone spiking someones drink! If you get caught drink driving its strict liability offence (so there is NO defence in court allowed...) however if you've been spiked and only felt bad while driving... then its not as fair right?)

rhig

MercilessKiller wrote:

I disagree completely. Though I'm not in a situation like this I was thinking of an example when reading the post and though a lot of people are guilty, some i don't think its fair to criticise.

Lets say Miss X had just lost her job in neverland and wanted to move in with Mr T in.. err.. Manchester..

Mr T lives with some students (who like Miss X) and tell her that its fine for her to live there until the end of their contract.. (1 to 9 months type thing).. until she gets life sorted and Mr T and Miss X move somewhere (where Miss X will then pay all council tax etc...)

In this case Miss X will be able to apply for JSA and automatically receive council tax exemption; this example does not counter my original argument as she is not evading a tax she is unable to pay.

rhig wrote:

Personally I believe anyone who evades tax they can afford to pay should be treated as a second class citizen by default, this man has no dependants and is withholding money he should be paying in order to fund the public services he is given.

The problem of a non student moving in to a registered student house however is more complicated as the action can put at risk the tenancy as well as the landlords HMO license, if someone is unable to pay their council tax the legal route is through exemption and benefits, people on a low income can receive a reduction or exemption as well as housing benefits to help with rent.

kittiwoz

I'm with Snow Angel. If the OP lets the guy move in he should be paying proper rent as I said before (not splitting a share with his gf) and should be treated as a housemate. If she agrees to him moving in she is complicit in his avoidance of council tax and has no right to treat him as second class because of it or to hold it over him as blackmail. Someone who feels as strongly as Rhig aginst people avoiding council tax should not even countenance allowing a sublet which would aide someone in their avoidance since it would be hypocritical.

Rhig's POV, however, does highlight another reason why the OP should ask that the boyfriend pay a share of the rent on the house (with some sort of discount to the couple for sharing a room) rather than a share on the room. It is necessary he pay rent on the house so he can view it as his home and be seen as an equal housemate. That way it is all square with no favours to be held over people or expected to be grateful for or resented.

cupid_s

I don't think it would be fair if the boyfriend simply pays half of his girlfriends rent. What about inconvenience to other people on the house? An extra person using the bathroom, less space for everyone else in fridge/cupboards etc.

My sister rents out two rooms in her house. One to a single girl and one to a couple. The couple pay 1.5 times what the girl does and I think this is fair.

Snow_Angel

cupid_stunt wrote:

I don't think it would be fair if the boyfriend simply pays half of his girlfriends rent. What about inconvenience to other people on the house? An extra person using the bathroom, less space for everyone else in fridge/cupboards etc.

My sister rents out two rooms in her house. One to a single girl and one to a couple. The couple pay 1.5 times what the girl does and I think this is fair.

Yes that is fair. my point was that if people agree to let it happen, then once he moves in and the terms have already been set, then that's how it should be. He lives there, pays his way (whichever way they all agree on) and if anyone should find out he is there (i.e. the authorities) he should have it made perfectly clear to him that he will be the one liable to pay the bill or the fine.

I think it would definitely be worth all sitting down together and drawing up some ground rules before this happens.

And I think Mercilesskiller has a good point - not everything is black and white.

Blacksheep1979

find out how much the council tax would have been and have him pay half of that ontop of his rent and bills. That way he's still up as he's saving half rent (probably more as its a student house) and half the council tax and then you guys are up as well and put it towards your bills/rent etc.