Advice sought

Linton

darkpool wrote: »

i think most people in the UK have the intelligence to research and make most big life decisions by themselves. for instance most people don't pay for advice on what uni course to attend/ what house to live in/ who to marry/ what car to buy. yet the ifa community seriously suggest that someone investing 1k needs to go to an ifa and pay for advice.

why are the ifa community so defensive on this thread? is it because they know most clients would be better off without their "service"?

Hardly a sensible comparison. Most people have some idea what uni courses are about, what houses look like etc etc. Judging from queries on this board most people, particularly those with relatively small sums to manage, have no idea at all what an investment is, nor what type of investments are available.

So if an IFA is prepared to spend some time guiding a very small investor through his first investments, that seems to me a good thing. My concern would be that any such work may be unlikely to meet the IFA's costs, and if currently cross subsidised from the IFA's richer clients could become unviable in the future.

Meeper

Lokolo wrote: »

This isn't at all an IFA "sale".

This is the exact nature of my complaint. IFA (the A stands for adviser, you know?) work does not necessarily involve a "sale". I appreciate that my profession has dug its own hole here, but there is no basis to assume that consulting an adviser would need to lead to a "sale".

darkpool

Meeper wrote: »

Nice positioning Darkpool. If I defend my position I'm defensive and thus reinforcing your argument. If I agree with your position, you win the point. If I say nothing, you will doubtless make the point that I have been "defeated" and retired from the thread with my tail between my legs.

Most people have the intelligence to research how to strip down the engine on their car and re-fit their brakes. But they don't, and for very good, and obvious reasons.

i honestly think if the service provided by ifas was self evident you wouldn't have so many of them on this thread defending the ifa position.....

i think most people here would agree that buying a house is one of the biggest decisions they make in their life. yet i don't know anyone that would pay for an estate agent to decide what house they should live in. it's assumed that people have the intelligence to research what house suits them most, yet people think it ok for an ifa to decide where to invest their money.

be honest, compared to organising a wedding (which people generally do themselves) running a 6 figure portfolio is a piece of cake.

Lokolo

Meeper wrote: »

This is the exact nature of my complaint. IFA (the A stands for adviser, you know?) work does not necessarily involve a "sale". I appreciate that my profession has dug its own hole here, but there is no basis to assume that consulting an adviser would need to lead to a "sale".

Hence why sale is in "'s. Yes IFAs main priority is advice, but I would imagine most transactions would include the buying of investments, that you have sold to your client.

How many clients do you have that just take the advice but go elsewhere? I imagine its a very small amount compared to those that take the advice and buy those investments..... which is a sale.

darkpool

Linton wrote: »

Hardly a sensible comparison. Most people have some idea what uni courses are about, what houses look like etc etc. Judging from queries on this board most people, particularly those with relatively small sums to manage, have no idea at all what an investment is, nor what type of investments are available.

so if you went to uni you wouldn't research employment of previous graduates/ cost of local housing etc? it just seems weird that an 18 year old can decide the best university course yet someone older needs help to invest money.

Lokolo

darkpool wrote: »

so if you went to uni you wouldn't research employment of previous graduates/ cost of local housing etc? it just seems weird that an 18 year old can decide the best university course yet someone older needs help to invest money.

No what hes saying is that enough people have the knowledge that you wouldn't have to pay for it. You can ask friends and family.

Whereas its not the same for investing. I think I am the only one in my close family (of 9) that even understands what a dividend even is, however, 3 of my family have been to university, 7 have owned a house etc.

darkpool

Lokolo wrote: »

No what hes saying is that enough people have the knowledge that you wouldn't have to pay for it. You can ask friends and family.

Whereas its not the same for investing. I think I am the only one in my close family (of 9) that even understands what a dividend even is, however, 3 of my family have been to university, 7 have owned a house etc.

i agree that not many people know about investments. but how hard is it for someone to get their head around dividends/ diversification/ ISAs etc? it's really not that hard and there are plenty good books.

i would say getting a basic understanding of investments would take less time/ effort than learning to drive.

Lokolo

darkpool wrote: »

i agree that not many people know about investments. but how hard is it for someone to get their head around dividends/ diversification/ ISAs etc? it's really not that hard and there are plenty good books.

i would say getting a basic understanding of investments would take less time/ effort than learning to drive.

I disagree greatly with that. It took me 25 hours of driving to pass my test. It took a lot more time than that to understand and read "plenty of good books" on investing.

Not only that but it was only because I had the spare time at uni to be able to learn. Should I have waited until now where I am working full time, I doubt I would have bothered.

Linton

darkpool wrote: »

so if you went to uni you wouldn't research employment of previous graduates/ cost of local housing etc? it just seems weird that an 18 year old can decide the best university course yet someone older needs help to invest money.

I wonder what the evidence is that 18year olds have been able to select the best university course? But if they get it wrong the results are unlikely to be disastrous, just sub-optimal.

To compare look at the questions people ask on these forums...

- Should I stop paying into my public sector pension?
- Can I get compensation as my investment dropped by 3% in the past 6 months?
- someone's rung me to offer a guaranteed 20% return - should I accept?
- how do I cash in my pension?
- how do I put my life savings into silver?

Then consider that the people who have the nous to find this forum and ask the questions are the small minority. The answers of necessity can only be broad-brush and possibly totally inappropriate for the questioners circumstances. This is why the people who ask the above type of questions should consult an IFA.

darkpool

Lokolo wrote: »

I disagree greatly with that. It took me 25 hours of driving to pass my test. It took a lot more time than that to understand and read "plenty of good books" on investing.

Not only that but it was only because I had the spare time at uni to be able to learn. Should I have waited until now where I am working full time, I doubt I would have bothered.

i think an investment rookie could read/ study an investment book in a couple of days, then learn more while actually investing.

how long do you think it takes for someone to grasp the concept of dividends? i think i could explain it in a couple of minutes.