Not charge for purchase goods

greatfloyd69

I recently purchased a set of golf clubs for my BF last week from a fairly large chain store, when I went to get the clubs I was told their card machines were down, that I'd have to swipe my card, which I did.

Straight away it was clear, as usually happens, that the said amount had been debited from my account.... Then it reappeared. After some confusion, and a long call to the bank it seems the amount was requested from my bank, but never actually claimed by the merchant.

Has anyone had this happen to them before? The customer service advisor told me that they could take the amount at any time, up to 6 months down the line, but I account for everything going in and out of my accounts and it seems ridiculous to me that I have to have the money sitting there indefinately!

Does anybody know anything about this sort of thing??

Valli

But you've asked your bank and they have told you that the money can be claimed sometime during the next 6 months. Hardly indefinitely, is it?

If you don't want it in your account contact the store and tell them it hasn't been deducted;)

greatfloyd69

I like to think I'm a fairly moral individual, I work hard, save money, I've never stolen anything in my life, I dont drink or smoke but can be known to eat too many biscuits.... But phoning them up to tell them they didn't charge me £200 (which was an error they made!) seems just a little too saintly!!

I know that its simply a case of putting the money aside just in case (which I've done!!) but I just wondered if anybody had ever had this happen before?

arcon5

Simple,

if you don't want to be 'saintly' then don't ring them nor don't cry if they take it in 6 months time and affect your budgetting or summons you to court within the next 6 years if you spend the money

otherwise ask them to charge you and restore peace of mind once again.


This type of thing happens all the time around here. Usually people hoping it's a case of 'its their error, touch luck' -- however, it doesn't work like that. When they (or if in a minority of cases) discover the discrepency they will chase you for it and you will be legally liable for payment.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do

Valli

greatfloyd69 wrote: »

I like to think I'm a fairly moral individual, I work hard, save money, I've never stolen anything in my life, I dont drink or smoke but can be known to eat too many biscuits.... But phoning them up to tell them they didn't charge me £200 (which was an error they made!) seems just a little too saintly!!

I know that its simply a case of putting the money aside just in case (which I've done!!) but I just wondered if anybody had ever had this happen before?

But you are now considering keeping goods you KNOW you haven't paid for - theft (Theft Act 1968) -

Where a person gets property by another’s mistake, and is under an obligation to make restoration (in whole or in part) of the property or its proceeds or of the value thereof, then to the extent of that obligation the property or proceeds shall be regarded (as against him) as belonging to the person entitled to restoration, and an intention not to make restoration shall be regarded accordingly as an intention to deprive that person of the property or proceeds.

In laymans terms - you haven't paid for them, you should have paid for them, you know you haven't paid for them therefore you have committed theft so maybe you would like to amend your post?

bb999

Valli wrote: »

But you are now considering keeping goods you KNOW you haven't paid for - theft (Theft Act 1968) -

Where a person gets property by another’s mistake, and is under an obligation to make restoration (in whole or in part) of the property or its proceeds or of the value thereof, then to the extent of that obligation the property or proceeds shall be regarded (as against him) as belonging to the person entitled to restoration, and an intention not to make restoration shall be regarded accordingly as an intention to deprive that person of the property or proceeds.

In laymans terms - you haven't paid for them, you should have paid for them, you know you haven't paid for them therefore you have committed theft so maybe you would like to amend your post?

Rubbish.
The OP has paid by card, but the seller has not yet claimed the money - In no way is this theft.

By your logic, you steal everything you pay by card until it appears on your account :rotfl:

Valli

bb999 wrote: »

Rubbish.
The OP has paid by card, but the seller has not yet claimed the money - In no way is this theft.

By your logic, you steal everything you pay by card until it appears on your account :rotfl:

Don't be ridiculous - I am quoting the LAW. The money was 'earmarked' for the shop but has not been claimed. The balance of the OPs account went 'down' by £200 but the £200 was never claimed - and now the OP has posted here because she knows full well, having spoken to her bank, that the money may be claimed anytime within 6 months of the purchase date. So far it hasn't been. What the OP is 'looking for' (reading between the lines) is for forumites to say that it's tough luck for the shop, their responsibilty to claim it and if it doesn't she's up a £200 set of golf clubs. And there would be no consequences or comeback.

What I am pointing out is that if she (or anyone) knowingly does not pay for goods or services received (or food in a restaurant) then they are, in the eyes of the law, guilty of theft.

The OP KNOWS she hasn't paid for the golf clubs. She authorised a debit but it hasn't been claimed. Furthermore the OP is well aware that there was a problem at the point of sale. It does not give her the right not to complete her part of the contract and PAY for the goods she took!

And I wasn't the only poster to point this out!

mo786uk

No way would this fall within the definition of theft

for a start there has been a contractual agreement

for theft to occur she would have had to have had the intetion of theft at the time she took the goods - she would also need the intention to permanently deprive - which isnt (quite) there.

Valli

It WOULD be theft. Just the same as if anyone ordered food in a restaurant - say starter, main course, dessert. They eat their meal and ask for the bill. They see that the cost of a dish or a course has been omitted from the bill but they say nothing and pay the bill as presented to them.
In the eyes of the law they SHOULD point out the error and pay the amended bill in full. If they don't inform the restaurant they CAN be charged with theft!
Not my opinion - this is the law.

There was no intention to deprive at the outset - but an omission!

unholyangel

Valli wrote: »

It WOULD be theft. Just the same as if anyone ordered food in a restaurant - say starter, main course, dessert. They eat their meal and ask for the bill. They see that the cost of a dish or a course has been omitted from the bill but they say nothing and pay the bill as presented to them.
In the eyes of the law they SHOULD point out the error and pay the amended bill in full. If they don't inform the restaurant they CAN be charged with theft!
Not my opinion - this is the law.

There was no intention to deprive at the outset - but an omission!

(2) Where property or a right or interest in property is or purports to be transferred for value to a person acting in good faith, no later assumption by him of rights which he believed himself to be acquiring shall, by reason of any defect in the transferor’s title, amount to theft of the property.


But for making off without payment there must be a intention to permanently avoid payment.

I dont agree that the OP shouldnt pay and in fact i think they should call and make them aware but nor do i think it qualifies as theft. I believe if you reported this to the police they would tell you its a "civil" matter as a contract is in place. Just the OP hasnt kept his end of the contract so technically he is in breach of contract.


EDIT: oh and as for restaurant example, it would depend. If they were dining with just themselves or one other person and they were only charged for coffee, i think its safe to say that is dishonesty. If there were a large group of 12 and 1 meal was missed out, its reasonable enough to assume there may have been no dishonesty and that the customer was simply paying in good faith that the amount presented to them was the amount due.

arcon5

unholyangel wrote: »

I dont agree that the OP shouldnt pay and in fact i think they should call and make them aware but nor do i think it qualifies as theft. I believe if you reported this to the police they would tell you its a "civil" matter as a contract is in place. Just the OP hasnt kept his end of the contract so technically he is in breach of contract.


EDIT: oh and as for restaurant example, it would depend. If they were dining with just themselves or one other person and they were only charged for coffee, i think its safe to say that is dishonesty. If there were a large group of 12 and 1 meal was missed out, its reasonable enough to assume there may have been no dishonesty and that the customer was simply paying in good faith that the amount presented to them was the amount due.

tbf the police can be pretty useless in many genuine fraudulent cases fobbing it off as a civil matter, so I wouldn't expect them to ever take interest in a case like ops one way or the other.

As an example, a relative of mine a couple of years ago paid for some work to be undertaken, paid about £600 upfront and no work was ever done. After some research it was discovered there was many more victims and pretty transparent there was no intention of doing the work. When he went to the police they told him it's a civil to be dealt with via the courts and advised he should report it to TS.

I thought that was shocking :eek:.
He got a police reference number eventually -- but didn't yield any results & never got his money back (although I do feel he was very stupid to give the chap money in the first place).