ESA Medical Assessment - Anxiety Disorder Questions

tottybum

cit_k wrote: »

Out of interest do you have any idea what the situation is with upper tribunals and ESA?

If you appeal an appeal, are you still paid the ESA assessment rate, or is it like with IB where they turn round and tell you to go starve?

Starve!!! or claim JSA or you could even make another ESA claim and try your luck again on the magic roundabout!

Zebbady & Dougal

tottybum

cit_k wrote: »

IB and ESA are remarkably similar, both used ATOS, both use LIMA software. Very little difference in assessments really.

Fraud on IB is currently at 0.3 percent... many people have to appeal year after year, if they wanted to lie and pass, they could try, but they dont....

Why is the ATOS assessor not also treated as a liar?
ATOS have more to gain than a claimaint does financially, from keeping the dwp happy (ie meet the target of failing 1 million) as they dont want to lose a 100 MILLION a year contract.

So going by motive, ATOS have a far bigger motive to lie than a claimaint.


Oh, and yes, the DWP / ATOS are meant to read all the forms/evidence.

Claimaint evidence has to be considered alongside all other evidence.

The claimaints evidence is first hand testimony, the assessors evidence is mere 'opinion'.

In fact, the assessors 'evidence' is not even always there opinion, its often the 'opinion' of a computer program, ergo the opinion of some bunch of medically untrained (no doubt) programmers in some far off land.

What the **** has ATOS got to do with it?

The comment was that the assessor should read the forms in detail, and believe you!!!

As if.

If that were possible, everybody would pass and we would have a 100% guarantee, to tell Joe Public, that everyone that is now on ESA is genuine, with genuine reasons which have been vetted vigorously.

wellynever

cit_k wrote: »

Out of interest do you have any idea what the situation is with upper tribunals and ESA?

If you appeal an appeal, are you still paid the ESA assessment rate, or is it like with IB where they turn round and tell you to go starve?

Yes you still get the ESA assessment rate, But they are trying to stop this at even the first appeal.

System

tottybum wrote: »

What the **** has ATOS got to do with it?

The comment was that the assessor should read the forms in detail, and believe you!!!

As if.

If that were possible, everybody would pass and we would have a 100% guarantee, to tell Joe Public, that everyone that is now on ESA is genuine, with genuine reasons which have been vetted vigorously.

They should read the forms and assess you on the information provided, which didn't happen at either of my medicals, though thankfully they could see how ill i was.

tottybum

xXMessedUpXx wrote: »

They should read the forms and assess you on the information provided, which didn't happen at either of my medicals, though thankfully they could see how ill i was.

Yes they should use the forms to gather information from and carry out an assessment based on what it said. Does ATOS believe what has been written, that is the test.

But to say that you should pass based on the ESA50, as they should believe you, is taking the p**s!!

System

tottybum wrote: »

Yes they should use the forms to gather information from and carry out an assessment based on what it said. Does ATOS believe what has been written, that is the test.

But to say that you should pass based on the ESA50, as they should believe you, is taking the p**s!!

Obviously people do pass though, as they submit enough evidence not to need a medical

tottybum

wellynever wrote: »

Yes you still get the ESA assessment rate, But they are trying to stop this at even the first appeal.

No that is wrong. If your fail at the Lower Tier your ESA will cease. If you apply to the Upper Tier you will get no benefit.
Unless you make a new claim.

And as for the 'magic roundabout' you should not be paid ESA assessment rate after you have been found fit for work whilst waiting for the Tribunal. If you want money you claim JSA.
That is what the government are hoping to put in place and about time too.

As it is now you can have someone that provided they supply sick notes, they can get ESA assessment rate (same as JSA payment) permanently and never be proved that they qualify for ESA. Claim -appeal, Claim - appeal etc etc.

rogerblack

tottybum wrote: »

Are you actually being serious?

So ATOS/DWP should read the forms (I presume the ESA50/IB50) and if you say that you have xyz and that you cannot carry out any work of any kind and that your condition is such that looking for work would be a danger to your health, poor old assessor should say ' ah this person has explained everything, so it must all be true - put her/him in the support group for 5 years'.

Of course not.
However, I don't consider it's unreasonable to expect the assessor to - at least - have read all of the supporting documentation - including that supplied by the claimant, understand the training material supplied by the DWP about the illness, and perform the assessment according to the procedures set out in the DWP/ATOS manuals.

If on the basis of that, and reasonable knowledge about the condition, they then perform the assessment, and see if their apparant disability is inconsistent with that the evidence shows - an incorrect result is much less likely.

The problem arises when they skim the ESA50 for half a minute or less, don't understand the claimants condition, and so fail to ask questions which probe the right areas, leading to a report that doesn't properly reflect the claimants condition.
This report is then rubber-stamped by the decision-maker, and the claimant has to appeal to get the right decision.

tottybum

xXMessedUpXx wrote: »

Obviously people do pass though, as they submit enough evidence not to need a medical

Of course they do and that point must be made. The genuine claimants that can produce docmentary evidence to show that they cannot be considered as fit to carry out any work function, will always go through without a problem.

Unfortunately on here we only normally come across those that fail and those that have a dubious unproven illness claiming dubious inabilities.

tottybum

rogerblack wrote: »

Of course not.
However, I don't consider it's unreasonable to expect the assessor to - at least - have read all of the supporting documentation - including that supplied by the claimant, understand the training material supplied by the DWP about the illness, and perform the assessment according to the procedures set out in the DWP/ATOS manuals.

If on the basis of that, and reasonable knowledge about the condition, they then perform the assessment, and see if their apparant disability is inconsistent with that the evidence shows - an incorrect result is much less likely.

The problem arises when they skim the ESA50 for half a minute or less, don't understand the claimants condition, and so fail to ask questions which probe the right areas, leading to a report that doesn't properly reflect the claimants condition.
This report is then rubber-stamped by the decision-maker, and the claimant has to appeal to get the right decision.

That now makes sense, thanks.

I just couldn't grasp the meaning behind your comment - read the forms in detail, and believe you.

Thanks for clarifying