Big hikes in direct debit payments - EON

dshart

Airmike23 wrote: »

Thing that most people finding very frustrating is the minions at eon that joe public get thru to have had it hammered in to them bt management,the policy of £0 bal by 1-4-XX, of course if the reallignment results in credit, the bill a customer gets after that date, the surplus will automatically be refunded. Eon will refund credit at this time and will lower direct debits at this time of year, what they wont do is allow for a refund and dd drop, that will potentially mean a debit after winter consumption. I appreciate when people see they are £200 in cr and Eon are asking for £30 more on the dd it is tough to take. What has affected many folk this year that between 1-7-11 and 31-10-11 Fix Online 8, Save Online 2and 3 all ended that had massive discounts on the unit rate, and if they did not switch to an alternater plan, and let their tariff and end of cheap one default to Energy Online the mdd increase is based on the new rates, on increased unit rate costs as of 13-9-11, with about 15% less discount than their previous tariff, that is why at least 50-60% of folks I've dealt with have experienced such large mdd increases, the current range of products are just not as cheap as what was around a year ago, so if the customers usage has not dropeed by 20% + in the last year, the only option to ensure they are not massively behind after winter 2011/12 is to increase the mdd, sometimes it does seem, where did this come from this increase, the letter an eon customer gets re the dd incr does explain, but v long and tedious and most folk don't bother with it. I think there should be circumstances taken into acc when a cust calls in saying they can't afford the incr, but a lot of the time people have very unrealistic ideas about what their actual cost is against what they feel they should be paying, eg I spoke to a lady, just off save Online 3, had been paying £88 a month since Nov 2010, smal cr on acc as of end of Oct 2011 statement, because saveol3 had ended and now on energy online her annual cost was £1392 or £116 a month, she could not get her head around this, after asking her to go away and have a look on comp sites she saw what I was talking about Save Online 11 allowed her to drop mdd to £104, but she was trying to suggest she should only pay £90 a month which is not going to do it, that's for me is the biggest thing, getting customers to understand usage and the cost of, wouldn't solve that we don't like mdd increases, but if they can be shown more effectively why it is, might be an easier sell.

Although what you say may be correct in some cases it is defenitley not what happened to me. As I posted quite specific details in one of the threads about EON direct debit problems. My account was in credit at review and they refunded the credit, they then set my DD the same as the previous year, so without a consumption increase you would expect a credit again by the next spring. Their figures show a slight drop in my usage over the year and the estimated cost for the next 12 months was roughly the same as I would have paid with my DD yet they increased my DD by 26%. The raise in tarrifs on my plan was only 15% so where did they get the additional 11%? If you want the exact figures you can search through my other posts on this topic.

The worst thing was when I was in the process of changing supplier they wrote to me and said they had reassessed my usage and dropped my dd. Originaly I was paying £179/month and they increased it to £228/month and then reassessed at £44/month. I think that was just a ploy to make me stay, but it shows how underhand they are and that it is not just computer errors or wrong calculations but a deliberate plan to have people in credit all the time.

dshart

jalexa wrote: »

Oh yes they do! Must be that time of year again.

See here...
http://www.eonenergy.com/FAQ/Paying-By-Direct-Debit/Direct-Debit-Payment-Calculation.htm

They state they do but at least in my case they did not as I had over £200 credit by the time of my spring review which they credited back to my bank account yet left my dd the same. Then three months later they increased my dd by 26% with no increase in consumption and a 15% increase in tarrif. How does that equate to working towards a zero spring balance?

jalexa

dshart wrote: »

How does that equate to working towards a zero spring balance?

It doesn't (nor does that procedure conform with their stated policy).

Did you challenge Eon?

later edit: possibly answered in your previous post, though to force a written explanation would have been useful.

dshart

jalexa wrote: »

It doesn't (nor does that procedure conform with their stated policy).

Did you challenge Eon?

later edit: possibly answered in your previous post, though to force a written explanation would have been useful.

I challenged them and had several conversations with managers in cs but got the usual waffle about increased consumption over winter and working towards a zero balance in the spring. I gave my figures and calculations to one manager and he said he would look at them and call me back in 20 minutes, but never called back. In the end they agreed to leave my DD the same although they did after that take the higher payment which I made them refund.

I think it will be hard to get anything in writing from them as there was no way they could justify the increase. By their own estimates my usage was less than before, their estimated cost for the next 12 months stated on my bill was equivalent to my DD even with the increase in tariffs so unless they knew it was going to be a severe winter then there was no justification for an increase.

I did not push it any further as I found a cheaper supplier and moved my custom. I just hope now I do not have the same issues with the new supplier as I read on these boards similar stories about others.

Anne3333

meggsy wrote: »

and hello to Anne3333

Hi Meggsy,
I am reading this with interest, but staying out of it. The NPower Sculpting Saga frazzled my brain and raised my blood pressure, especially all those spreadsheets from DirectDebacle
I am happy to be an observer this time round, but disappointed that the energy companies are still playing games.
It is time we had a regulator with balls!

jalexa

There are so many pages on the Eon website about the Eon direct debit policy its difficult to know where to start (and where to end).

A few quotes, not entirely random, rather chosen as relevant.

Discounts not payable on final bills.

The point about that is that the customer is being informed of a very specific issue and therefore cost.

Here at E.ON, nearly half of our customers choose to pay for their energy by fixed monthly Direct Debit, which spreads the cost of energy evenly throughout the year and helps prevent hefty winter bills. (my emphasis)

Yes it does if it works but subject to the perfect storm of tariff maturity, market increase, seasonal consumption (and possibly inaccurate payment setting at the previous "annual review"), the process is deeply flawed (because far from preventing hefty winter bills, the process causes hefty winter bills.

Where is the equivalent "heads-up" to "discounts not payable on final bills"?

Your account should always be in credit as you pay for your energy before you use it. This is why we give you a discount for paying this way. (my emphasis)

It surprises even me that "this is why" apparently is the only reason. Clearly it is a premeditated "one way bet".

We review your Direct Debit every spring between April and June. This is called your Annual Review.

Any comment anybody, anyone on May or June?

Eon reps - what proportion in each month? How is the month chosen?

We won't tell you how we calculate your seasonal consumption, however you can always check the "Twitter table"

err... I made that one up (partly).

jalexa

Anne3333 wrote: »

It is time we had a regulator with balls!

Nah, its time we had the regulator's balls:D

DirectDebacle

Mrs_Arcanum wrote: »

This was mine

Addressing only the left hand column above the graph, this is my view of their explanation.

The first para. though a little loose, explains the default DD scheme most customers are familiar with.

The next para. causes me some concern. A review is conducted between April and June. Fair enough. However to call it an annual review is misleading. For some customers it will be a true annual review but for others it won't. This para. is designed to sow the seeds of confusion.

The next section entitled:

Here's How we work out your fixed monthly Direct Debit

Para. 1. A customer who has not joined between April to June may well take this to mean that it will be simply a review (which Eon, purely by chance, call annual review) as described in the first section.

Para 2. As read.

Up till now there has been no mention of a spring zero balance. The customer, though perhaps a little puzzled by a review being called an annual review, has so far been told how the usual DD scheme operates.

Para 3. After reading this the customer may well be feeling more confident now that the correct meaning of annual review is being used. It says that over the whole year payments will cover usage after which the balance will be at zero. Still that odd reference to spring though.

The final section clears it all up and reassures the customer. It says that the payments are going to be kept at just the right amount to ensure the account will be around zero at the annual review. The customer is now sure they mean a true annual review.

A quick look at the graph confirms this. It shows all the payments remain level as usage fluctuates and the note says that the graph is only for illustrative purposes. All doubts are now dispelled. Spring zero balance is just referring to an example of someone who joined in the spring. The same will happen whenever you join. Customer is now confident the DD scheme is the well established one. But can't understand why the DD has gone up so much. Perhaps a quick phone call will help.

I think there is enough ambiguity here to show none compliance with SLC 14. It isn't clear enough in my opinion. Even if it is it doesn't matter.

I think in that case the Eon scheme would not fall within the definition of SLC 13. If it didn't we are in a different ball game.

I am sure others can put different interpretations to mine and it would be good to hear some.

The picture isn't complete yet as we still need to see how the letter explaining the DD upon joining is phrased.

Nah, its time we had the regulator's balls:D

Brilliant.

Anne3333

jalexa wrote: »

Nah, its time we had the regulator's balls:D

I don't condone violence, Jalexa, but am happy to lend you my sparkly new nutcrackers and Cattle prod! :eek:

backfoot

Just some initial thoughts on the Eon document.

1. They have totally twisted the explanation of the DD discount given. It is suddenly claimed it is for paying in advance. It never was and is a discount for their preferred payment method. i.e. it is now part of their cash flow mainipulation.

2.If I was sent this document in relation to a DD change or after I asked for an explanation of my increase,I would reject it as being unsuitable and non compliant with SLC27. It's not clear and it doesn't explain my specific increase.

3. I get the impression that this is being sent out following a complaint. Not good enough. A different suitable document explaining an individual's DD change should be produced along with the change request.(in advance)

4. The real impacts of pre winter price increases are not explained.

5. The real impacts of joniing Eon pre winter or during winter are not explained.

6. Even if these matters were explained, they penalise a customer unfairly and are outwith the normal and established DD procedures operated by Suppliers. CF now seem aware of this impact.

7. I know personally that such information is not given if you request a phone quote. I was given a flat annual DD quote. Annual cost/12.

8. An astute Regulator should easily see through the manipulation. :think: