DVLA threatening fine for not receiving V5/car tax notification

sparklesparkle88

Hi all, hope someone can help or has knowledge on matters like this.

We bought a car at the start of the year and to cut a long story short, we bought from a cowboy and ended up with the car being returned to the garage we bought from and never being returned to us.

We received a LAST CHANCE letter from DVLA asking us to notify them whether or not we were taxing the car, scrapped or sold it, etc.

I sent a response notifying them we no longer had the car by Recorded Delivery (signed for with electronic verification online) and it was received by DVLA. A few weeks later we received a letter from a case worker from DVLA asking for more info on the car. We sent this back in the SAE provided in the letter but not recorded delivery. We had no part of the letter to keep as it was all to be sent back.

We have now received a letter from DVLA saying we owe £80 (or £60 if paid in two weeks) and accusing us of not informing them of what we were doing with the car. I have the receipt from the first letter I sent but no receipt for the second letter responding to their more-info request. I do not feel I am liable to pay as I followed all instructions and have proof my first letter was sent, received and signed for.

Any help is appreciated.

Laura.

Trebor16

What did you do with the V5 registration document? That will be the key issue here. With the car being returned to the dealer you should have been given the tear off slip from the V5 and then sent that in to DVLA.

With regards to the recorded delivery letter, what did you actually say in that letter?

sparklesparkle88

We have the log book and other docs. The cowboy had it sent to us even though we never had the car back, guess he was palming it off to us since the car was unfixable. We called DVLA who told us to write them a letter rather than send anything else and explain we dont have the car anymore, date we had it to-from, who sold it to us and the garage address it was seen last. Also explained the fact that we don't know where the car is as the cowboy went bust and closed down, not sure where the car ended up so we were not declairing it as anything. The letter was signed for and we had a response asking us when we last had the car. Responded to that (not rec delivery and sent all the paperwork as they requested it all sent back so nothing to show they sent it). And a few weeks later receive the threat of court and fine : /

Lum

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1978/30

Interpretation_Act_1978,_Section_7 wrote:

7. References to service by post.

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

Inform the DVLA that you sent the information to them, in their own SAE, in accordance with Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. The DVLA have lost many times in court due to this but they still try it on even though they know they will lose. Quoting that act should get them to drop the matter.

Note that the act states that the DVLA must prove that you did not post it. You do not have to prove that you did post it, however since you can prove this you are sorted.

Trebor16

My own thoughts are that having written to DVLA, as they advised you to do, and informed them that you were no longer the keeper of the vehicle, that you have complied with your statutory obligation to notify them of the changes.

I would write back and advise them you have complied with your obligation to notify the change of keeper and that you are not liable for their fine.

You have the proof of delivery, no doubt have a copy of the letter, and you have a letter sent in response to your recorded delivery letter.

Rover_Driver

It could depend on what the 'Last Chance' letter from the DVLA was about.
As the OP had apparently not sent the required part of the V5C to DVLA when they returned the the vehicle to the garage, it could be a last chance to pay the Late Licensing Penalty for not re-licensing the vehicle, or the out of court settlement offer for not telling DVLA that they had disposed of the vehicle.
In which case, s.7 Interpretation Act would not apply as the required document had not been sent.

sparklesparkle88

The Last Chance letter was a letter stating they hadn't received a SORN, notification of if we still had the car, etc.

The whole issue is we don't know where the car is now, we called DVLA and they told us to write a letter explaining the situation (that we don't know where the car is, if it is being used or has been sold on, etc.) and we did this.

I have proof of postage proving we sent this letter late August, as well as electronic notification of receipt (signature on Royal Mail website) to postcode SA99 1BA. So it was signed for and received with no issue.

We then received a SECOND letter in response to our first letter from a case worker saying they just needed a bit more information. It was all on one sheet of paper so we had nothing to keep and it was all returned in a second class SAE back to DVLA (I was in a rush on my lunch break so just posted it in the post box rather than queuing up in the Post Office to send it Recorded Delivery. Learnt my lesson the hard way I guess ).

Surely the fact we have proof of receipt of our first letter shows we have done the right thing and informed them? We are refusing to pay and just want to see how our argument would stand.

Any help would be great, or past experiences. This is causing a lot of worry as they are threatening debt collectors and court, etc.

sparklesparkle88

And just for reference, this is the letter I sent out originally. This is what we were told to do by someone at DVLA.

DVLA Swansea
SA99 1BA



To Whom It May Concern,

RE: Vehicle Registration ********


After receiving a reminder regarding the taxing of vehicle *********, I would like to inform you that I no longer own this vehicle.

The vehicle was bought at a car dealership (which has since ceased trading), and due to mechanical failure the car was given back to the seller for repair and was never returned to me since the day of purchase. I am unsure of where the vehicle is or if the vehicle is now owned by someone else. The car dealership the vehicle was purchased and previously registered to can be found at:


**************
**************
**************


Yours Sincerely,

sparklesparkle88

When the car was returned to the garage, we hadn't even received the V5, it was still registered to the garage.

We were in limbo about the car for about 3 months and during this time I think the car'dealer' knew the car wouldn't be fit to return to us but he still sent everything to DVLA to sign the car over to our name if that makes sense. After he done that he told us he couldn't fix the car and the business was closed down by Trading Standards so we were stuck with that car in our name and left with some other random rust bucket we didn't want (and even that was only pure luck that we got a car out of it at all).

We didn't want to declare it SORN because we don't know if someone else is using the car now or what and if we would get into trouble for doing that. We couldn't send part of the log book with New Owner details because we didn't know who it would be registered to anymore. The cowboy dealer was shut down for dodgy dealings and all the cars he had were given to the new owner of the lot who bought it when he was shut down. They were trying to sell all the cars left over when he closed. We know it wasn't scrapped but Christ knows who or where the car is.

I thought DVLA would be a bit more clued up on matters like this and act a bit more diplomatic but obviously they are more interested in milking you for all you're worth. We tried phoning them when we received the threat letter, spoke to someone just to try and ask a question and he was very abrupt in saying he would not deal with us and we could only appeal in writing or through court.