Unions and Pensions

CLAPTON

gadgetmind wrote: »

Those might be reasons, but they aren't good reasons!



This is far from being the first case we've seen lately of unions deceiving their members by spreading disinformation and lies to further their own political ends.

well,
I've asked for the evidence that unions are actively telling members to leave pension schemes

what is undoubtedly true is
-the government is constantly telling everyone how poor private sector pension schemes are compared to public sector

-have been saying for the last 10 years how much Brown trashed private sector pensions- robbed them

-Telegraph running articles on how high charges are crippling private pensions .. quoted 40% charges

-Times/Telegraph running articles about the collapse of annunity rates

-government changing RPI to CPI

-government changing pension age to later and later

and I'm sure I've forgotten a few

now none of the above seem specifically the fault of Unions

Meeper

The evidence is that my client told me that it was happening, and it had happened to him. He had been "advised" by his union to leave the pension scheme, along with the rest of the workforce.

Not sure why you are comparing public sector to private sector, to be honest, as my client is in the private sector and his pension provision hasn't changed. The union is simply telling everyone, it seems, to get out of their employer-based pensions, presumably for a political reason to make it look as though ALL employer pensions are poor to make the government look bad.

My original point still stands. Unions are obsolete, and their "I have a bigger gang than you, so I can bully you into getting what I want" is shameful.

CLAPTON

Meeper wrote: »

The evidence is that my client told me that it was happening, and it had happened to him. He had been "advised" by his union to leave the pension scheme, along with the rest of the workforce.

Not sure why you are comparing public sector to private sector, to be honest, as my client is in the private sector and his pension provision hasn't changed. The union is simply telling everyone, it seems, to get out of their employer-based pensions, presumably for a political reason to make it look as though ALL employer pensions are poor to make the government look bad.

My original point still stands. Unions are obsolete, and their "I have a bigger gang than you, so I can bully you into getting what I want" is shameful.

which company?

what advice are the unions givng .. a website would be good?

Moby

Meeper wrote: »

My original point still stands. Unions are obsolete, and their "I have a bigger gang than you, so I can bully you into getting what I want" is shameful.

I read your 'story' from your nameless client and found it highly suspect and Clapton addressed those issues but your comment above is particularly insulting. The gall of a 'financial adviser' saying such things bemuses me. You clearly have no idea of the daily struggles millions of people go through in the UK to survive and often the only support they have from a rapacious employer.... is their union.
All businesses are motivated by the aim of increasing the profit margin. Badly run businesses, who show little respect for their staff often find that the easiest way way of protecting the profit margin during a recession is to cut their labour costs. Unions are there to combat that and to protect the interests of the employee. Probably you are in a position in which you do not have to worry about such things but millions of people are! and I advise you to think a bit more before you post such comments as above!

In any event....All organisations are capable of corruption and bad practice, (I'll say nothing of my experiences with financial advisers or shall I mention the bankers!) but that doesn't make the ideals they stand for wrong and organisations like the unions are needed today more than ever. At least their ideals are pro-social. whereas I somewhat doubt a Financial Adviser goes into work every morning thinking about how he can benefit others that day!:rotfl:

gadgetmind

CLAPTON wrote: »

now none of the above seem specifically the fault of Unions

True, but none of them are a good reason to recommend that anyone leave a pension scheme.

atush

The evidence is here in these forums of PS workers being told to leave their pensions by their Union reps because "they are rubbish". From workers who were told this by their PS union reps. I had read quite a few of these this year. Will I go back and find them for you? No, that is work for you to do if you didn't bother reading them already.

gadgetmind

atush wrote: »

told to leave their pensions by their Union reps because "they are rubbish".

Why is it that those who get the best pensions, while being asked to contribute very little, are the ones who do the most bleating about them?

atush

I have no idea, but fear it could be that they are being misinformed by their unions, and are understandably upset that they too now have to face the world left to us by the last labour govt. But people are living longer, so have to work longer- across the board not just in the private sector. And PS workers who were once unerpaid are no longer, so they need to contribute fairly to their still very good PS pensions.

CLAPTON

gadgetmind wrote: »

True, but none of them are a good reason to recommend that anyone leave a pension scheme.

indeed so

I'm just been asking for specific checkable information about unions recommending that people leave pension schemes.


I'm not doubting that people in both public and private sector are very confused about their pensions (even if there is a wealth of info expecially in the public sector available) and I'm not doubting that the number of people expecially in the private sector in pension schemes is falling

the reasons why are several and at this moment in time I don't have checkable info that it's all the unions fault.

Meeper

Moby wrote: »

I read your 'story' from your nameless client

Clients name was Dave Evans. Does that help you?

and found it highly suspect

I don't come here seeking your approval, but there's nothing in the wording of my post which is "suspect". I don't particularly want to give the name of the company, as to do so may put the employees in a compromising position.

and Clapton addressed those issues

Hardly.

but your comment above is particularly insulting. The gall of a 'financial adviser' saying such things bemuses me.

I was insulting, but this comment isn't? I see.

You clearly have no idea of the daily struggles millions of people go through in the UK to survive

Incorrect. You don't know me and you don't know what I know. You assume that all advisers deal with the most wealthy individuals and drive Bentleys. I'm a regular guy, driving a Mondeo, a wife and daughter and have, over the last 3 years, been closer to the breadline than most of my clients. Times are tough, I agree. Don't assume to know me or judge what I do and do not "know".

often the only support they have from a rapacious employer.... is their union.

Not true. There is a raft of employee legislation to govern how people must be treated and there are measures in place giving people recourse. The need for a union is obsolete.

All businesses are motivated by the aim of increasing the profit margin. Badly run businesses, who show little respect for their staff often find that the easiest way way of protecting the profit margin during a recession is to cut their labour costs.

Incorrect. Badly run businesses who show little respect for their staff actually find that their unrespected and abused staff vote with their feet and leave. I used to work for another adviser company who treated the employees like dirt. The CEO had an ego the size of London and if an idea didn't come from him it was a bad one. People worked from 7am until 7pm in their 9-to-5 jobs without reward and such activity became expected. They grew to a decent size, but then many of the staff left because of the poor working conditions. There was no union membership there. We spoke with HR representatives, sought advice from websites and employment law solicitors and decided that the conditions were so onerous it would be the best course of action to leave. This course of action is available to everyone, as well as many other courses of action. What is the Union other than a bigger gang of people who can bully the company to get what they want by the threat of "industrial action", or inaction, as it is.

Unions are there to combat that and to protect the interests of the employee.

There is sufficient legislation to do that. There is no union to protect the interests of the elderly or infirmed, or those with diminshed capacity. They rely on legislation. Why should employees get more "protection" than the elderly, infirmed and most vulnerable?

Probably you are in a position in which you do not have to worry about such things but millions of people are! and I advise you to think a bit more before you post such comments as above!

Again, you don't know me. I'll ignore this comment.

In any event....All organisations are capable of corruption and bad practice

Of course they are. I now work in a company which has over 100 staff, but no union involvement. What happens if I have an issue? I'll tell you - I research the information required, speak to people to ensure that I'm not getting the wrong end fo the stick, and present my grievances to management in the appropriate and well-constructed way. If I have a case on legal grounds, they are obliged to give me satifaction. If I don't, nothing changes. What more could a union do than I can do my self, except to be a "bigger dog" that can make more threats. If I don't like it, I can vote with my feet.

(I'll say nothing of my experiences with financial advisers or shall I mention the bankers!)

Saying nothing seems to be a good way to go for you. Keep it up.

but that doesn't make the ideals they stand for wrong and organisations like the unions are needed today more than ever.

I respect your right to that opinion. I disagree, for the reasons posted above, and many more.

At least their ideals are pro-social.

Is that right? How is going on strike, closing my daughter's school for a day, making me take the day off work to look after my daughter when she should be in school (x130 children) pro-social exactly? How is taking a company like British Airways to the brink of bankruptcy because the union refused to allow changes which were put in place for the sole purpose of ensuring the long-term sustainability of the company pro-social? Do you even read what you are writing?

whereas I somewhat doubt a Financial Adviser goes into work every morning thinking about how he can benefit others that day!:rotfl:

Then I'm afraid that your cynicism is misplaced in this case. I do a massive amount of work every month for no financial reward. I am a governor of a school, steward of a charity, and member of an organisation which has donated millions to charitable causes in 2011. I provide my clients a service, and I am paid commensurate to the service they receive. I am by no means a millionaire. The majority of my day is spent trying to figure out ways to make other people's situations better than they are now, so if you don't mind, please park your high horse outside before posting again.

Meeper
--now slightly annoyed