'Retired'

slinga

I 'retired' when I was 50, 49 actually, I'm over 60 now but not yet 65.

When I fill in my tax return and they ask for my status or summat and give me a choice of:
-Employed
-self employed
-unemployed
-retired
-other

I don't yet receive a UK state pension and I no longer work, so should I fill in unemployed or retired on my tax form.

Mikeyorks

If you're claiming unemployment benefits then 'unemployed'? Suspect you're not so - 'retired'.


Incidentally you asked a question on CGT reporting recently. The requirement that you report where no CGT is due but 'you have disposal proceeds exceeding £40400' .......... rather perversely only applies if you 'normally complete an SA Return'.

The HMRC guidance is a bit confused as they've thrown a paragraph on 'you don't normally complete an SA Return' into the continuity. But the para relating to 'total disposal proceeds over £40.4k' is clearly headed 'When you're filling in your Self Assessment tax return'.

If you don't normally fill in an SA Return - then you don't need to simply because disposal proceeds exceed 4 x annual allowance. Clarified with HMRC a couple of years ago when I sold a few more of my wife's Funds than I had anticipated.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cgt/intro/report-gain.htm

slinga

Thanks very much.
That's a very interesting reply. Thanks very much Mikeyorks
I don't receive unemployment benefit.
Never even thought about it because my savings and investments cancel out the possibility??????

Just on the Self Assessment online: after someone has given advice it always seems churlish to then query that advice. But ...

My income from bank account interest is less than the allowance.

Although I've sold off about £60k of UTs, when I've done the calculation there is no overall Capital Gain greater than the CGT Allowance.

I filled in the SA online and have been mulling it over to make sure all is included.

I would prefer not to submit if I don't need to, just to keep below the skyline with the tax people.
I don't normally fill in a tax return but was going to this year because of the sale of the UTs.

Can anyone else confirm what Mikeyorks said about the requirement or otherwise to submit the self Assessment.

Just reading through the conditions in the link you posted Mikeyorks then doesn't this para mean I have to submit:

'Your total 'disposal proceeds' - usually the amount you receive when you sell or dispose of an asset - are no more than four times the tax-free allowance (that is no more than £40,400 for individuals in 2010-11 - £42,400 for 2011-12).'???

Millie_Millsters

slinga wrote: »

I 'retired' when I was 50, 49 actually, I'm over 60 now but not yet 65.

When I fill in my tax return and they ask for my status or summat and give me a choice of:
-Employed
-self employed
-unemployed
-retired
-other

I don't yet receive a UK state pension and I no longer work, so should I fill in unemployed or retired on my tax form.

That's a question that I've been mulling over lately. I'm under 60, don't work but don't claim any benefits.

I consider myself a lady of leisure and always put "other" because I'm far too young to be retired, even though I get a widow's pension

soolin

My OH is in exactly the same situation. Was made redundant earlier this year and is a good few years off his entitlement to any pensions. We decided that with my work and our savings he could actually just retire rather than look for work. So he's at home and neither of us claim any benefits or receive any pensions. We are due to renew our car insurance and wondered how to reply to the question of employment status- he thinks he will have to opt for retired. It didn;t really strike me that we would have to make the same decision when completing the tax return as well.

slopemaster

I'm in a similar position.
I wonder whether this affects applications for credit too?

I recently applied for a Halifax credit card for spending abroad, and was turned down.
Checked Experian - no problems.
I did wonder whether it had been a bad move to put 'retired' when I am only 54.

Mikeyorks

slinga wrote: »

Can anyone else confirm what Mikeyorks said about the requirement or otherwise to submit the self Assessment.

I'd looked, last night, for an earlier exchange on this subject. Now found and posted below. Post #5 is the definitive to look at and encapsulates my plagiarism in last night's post! The respondent (jimmo) is ex HMRC and with Capital Gains experience :-

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/39259316#Comment_39259316

Just reading through the conditions in the link you posted Mikeyorks then doesn't this para mean I have to submit:

'Your total 'disposal proceeds' - usually the amount you receive when you sell or dispose of an asset - are no more than four times the tax-free allowance (that is no more than £40,400 for individuals in 2010-11 - £42,400 for 2011-12).'???

No - as is clarified in the link I've posted above - it's the heading to that whole paragraph that is crucial.

slinga

Mikeyorks, my reply which included in blue the bit from the CGT form might have given the wrong impression.

I do not normally submit a SA.
But
I sold off three UTs last tax year.
None of the three made a gain above the allowance limit of £10100, in fact two made losses (which I'm not worried about declaring for future use)

But my total sales were over the limit of £40400 for not having to submit a SA. Total sales were in fact about £60,000.

Now however I read it and whatever you say I just can't get my head around the possibility of not having to submit a return.

Is there a telephone number at the Inland Revenue I can call to confirm your point of view?
Of course an email address might be better as I'd then have a reply in writing.

Thanks again for the time you've spent (some may say wasted on this )

Mikeyorks

slinga wrote: »

But my total sales were over the limit of £40400 for not having to submit a SA. Total sales were in fact about £60,000.

No wrong impression given - nor taken.

Provided you have no CGT to pay then (if you don't normally file an SA Return) ....... you do not have to file simply because your total disposals exceed (4 x annual allowance) £40,400.

The link I gave you on the HMRC website is a little confusing. But when you read it in conjunction with this one (my bold) :-

Once you've worked out that you have Capital Gains Tax to pay - or a loss to claim - you must report it. If you haven't received a tax return or letter asking you to complete a tax return, you need to contact HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC).

If you normally complete a Self Assessment tax return, you need to check if your gains need reporting (see the reporting link below). If you have gains to report or a loss to claim, you'll need to complete the additional Capital Gains Tax pages with your tax return.

........... it clarifies the distinction HMRC draw between those who normally file an SA Return (the need to report disposals above £40400 even if no tax due) and those who do not normally file (no requirement to report disposals above the threshold where no tax is due)

I've just replied to your PM to that effect. But as HMRC have given you conflicting (and IMO erroneous) advice over the 'phone ........... I've no issues with you adding that and we will see if 'jimmo' can be coerced into adding his advice.

slinga

As Mikeyorks tells me in our PMs that he doesn't have a problem with me quoting part of our PM and the answer I got from speaking to the IR by telephone I add it below, which might well only add to the confusion.

'The plot thickens.
I just phoned up the SA Helpline on 01619319070 and explained the situation to someone there who then passed me to her boss and he said 'no matter whether you normally send in a SA or not the fact that the sale of UTs was above the £40400 amount, then submitting a SA was required even though no CGT was payable'.

Looks like I'll have to submit.

Thanks for your help it was much appreciated.
Regards,
Slinga.'

I'm in no hurry to submit but unless I hear that there is deffo no requirement then I suppose I'll have to go with the verbal stuff from HMIR.

I must add the two people I spoke to were very nice and there was no argument or nastiness.

jimmo

To paraphrase what Mikeyorks has already said, it is very important accept that if HMRC issue a Tax Return (or Notice to Complete a Tax Return) to you, you have to complete it in accordance with the rules you have outlined.
However, if HMRC have not issued a return and you are liable to Tax you must Notify Liability under Section 7 Taxes Management Act 1970.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1970/9/section/7/enacted
As you can see that is not the up to date version but the principles remain.
(Once you Notify Liability, HMRC will issue a Tax Return.)
If you are not liable to Tax, you have no obligation to HMRC at all.
Take a look at the following 2 links which I hope are self-explanatory, especially the second one.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/chmanual/CH71300.htm
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/emmanual/EM4551.htm