'Retired'

slinga

Jimmo, I've read all your links but for me what over rides all is when sales of UTs are greater than £40400 then you have to submit a tax return no matter that your profits from those UT sales are less than the CGT allowance.
I've spoken over the phone to two people on the 'SA online help line' and they have stated that the above is the case.

I have no tax liability, have not been issued with a Notice to Complete and am not trying to hide anything but I'd rather not submit.

But unless I can read something in black and white from the tax guys then I'm going to have to submit for my own peace of mind.
Honestly I have to say that from my reading of 'the rules' I can't find an interpretation which goes along with what you, Jimmo and Mikeyorks say.
I'm not going to submit online until January and maybe some clarification will arise in that time, I'm not holding my breath though.

Thanks to you both for your postings and PMs.
I appreciate it.

Mikeyorks

slinga wrote: »

But unless I can read something in black and white from the tax guys then I'm going to have to submit for my own peace of mind.

I understand the overriding concern. But in the links I've provided there are 2 interconnected sentences that clarify that your circumstances :

I have no tax liability, have not been issued with a Notice to Complete

............... do not require you to file.

And the final link in jimmo's response surely adds to that clarification significantly?

There is no requirement to notify chargeability where there is no liability to Income Tax or Capital Gains Tax ............

I have a Community Investment Account (CITR) that allows me to recover directly from HMRC 5%pa of the sum on deposit for each of 5 years. It's not mainstream knowledge stuff but it was initiated in the days when you could access expert staff on the 'phone ........ and I still got the run around until I pointed out a worked example which directly contradicted their stance. To be fair the text in the CITR pages, at that time, was really ambiguous. I now give them a link to that example, with apologies, every time I make a repayment claim!

In similar vein - you're getting duff info from HMRC. But if you remain unconvinced - then I would file, in order to maintain peace of mind.

slinga

If I have no liability, don't file and for some reason get picked up about the over £40400 sometime in the future how much would a possible penalty be from the Revenue guys. And would it mean them keeping a beedy eye on me in the future, not that I'd be too concerned as I doubt if I'll have a liability in the future. But would they also go through my past records etc etc, again not that I'd be worried but it would be time consuming.

Off to catch a plane will read any replies in about 24 hours ish.

jimmo

There are only 3 types of penalty that HMRC could possibly impose in your circumstances.
They are the penalties for
1) Failure to Notify Liability.
2) Delay in Making a Return.
3) Making an Incorrect Return.
.
1) We have already discussed Failure to Notify Liability.
2) The time limit for making a Return is imposed by the statutory notice within the wording of the Return (or Notice to Complete a Tax Return) and so there cannot possibly be a delay if a Return has not been issued to you.
3) I trust Making an Incorrect Return is self-explanatory, but again, cannot possibly happen if you have not made a Return.
See the details through this contents page under Technical Contents.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/chmanual/index.htm
Unfortunately what you seem to want is written evidence of something that does not exist.
Let me turn your question around.
Where, exactly have you seen written evidence that, "when sales of UTs are greater than £40,000 then you have to submit a Tax Return....?"
Mikeyorks has clearly demonstrated that the HMRC guidance says no such thing.
I cannot speak for the HMRC of today but during my time there I would not have expected anybody on the "Service" side of the organisation to fully understand the legal niceties here. Only those on the "Compliance" side would have received training on that.
So, in my days, the person who you first spoke to on the phone probably wouldn't have been able to give a definitive answer.
Neither would her boss.
Neither, for that matter, would his boss.
However, at least one of the bosses should realise that they are not capable of answering the question and know who to ask for a definitive answer.
To summarise that, both Mikeyorks and I are advising you that in the circumstances you describe, you do not need to notify HMRC and do not need to submit a Return. As far as I can tell, the only evidence in writing you have is that given to you here, not our own words, but the links to HMRC material that we have posted.

On the practical side, I wouldn't be surprised if, following your phone call to the SA Helpline, you get a Return through the post and all this will become academic because you will have to make a Return then.
Also, if you decide to submit a Return, the only way HMRC can process it will be to put you into Self Assessment.
Once you are in, you are almost certain to get a 2011/12 Return next April and you will be at the mercy of HMRC as to when they may take you out of the system and stop sending you annual Returns.
As I said on the other thread HMRC are pretty good at telling you what you have to do, but they are not so hot in telling you what you don't have to do and, sadly the evidence you require does not exist.

slinga

Great detailed reply.
I only gave my surname when speaking to the SA help line so doubt they can trace me.
I'm now overseas until mid April next year with no one at home and no one to forward and request from HMRC so don't know how that one will work out.
I'm going to consider all the above one more time over the next few days.
Thanks again.

bondy01

soolin wrote: »

We are due to renew our car insurance and wondered how to reply to the question of employment status- he thinks he will have to opt for retired.

I'm 52 and not working. I'm in receipt of a pension so I'm both unemployed and retired! If you put each status into a car insurance website you will get different prices , or at least I did.