Bank accounts that do FP but not DD

Mark_In_Hampshire

Today's weird question

I have a Halifax bank account (for my sins)

Recent changes to online banking mean that when I send a payee a payment online, they get to see my sort code and account number within the payment reference.

I don't use direct debit, as it's so insecure. All that's needed to set one up on my account are the two pieces of data that are now, thanks to a change, being disclosed to everyone I pay.

Since I've had that happen three times to me (DD mandates appearing that I didn't even set up in the first place) I wanted to verify with the bank that the direct debit system/facility was completely disabled on the account, as I had asked them to do. However apparently it isn't, so the account still has a huge gaping security hole in it now exacerbated by the disclosure of all the information anyone would need to debit it, to everyone I pay.

Their suggestion was to regularly check the account online to make sure nobody has set up any mandates on it, which is laughable. or, to send the payments as CHAPS payments at a cost each time (this is just for paying e.g. gas, electricity, and so on). Or, pay in cash at a bank.

Can anyone suggest a bank account which can make faster payments out, receive them inbound, and which preferably has a debit card too (not bothered about a cheque book) though I could go without that if I have to, but which does not support direct debit?

Thanks,
Mark

alanq

With NatWest it is possible to make online payments directly from an eSaver account. I assume that no Direct Debits are permitted from that account as it is a savings account but worth checking to be absolutely sure.

Faster payments out and in?-Yes.

Debit card and cheque book? - not with that account but you could use it in conjunction with a current account. The current account would allow direct debits but you would not be using that to make the payments.

If you are worried about people knowing you bank account number then a having a cheque book will be of no use.

Mark_In_Hampshire

Thanks alanq - having a look now.

I do have a Halifax "e-saver" type account which works with my current account, that doesn't support DDs but on the other hand doesn't support faster payments either. So the Natwest one is looking good.

Because of the security flaw I tend to migrate all the cash out of my current account into that as soon as it's credited, leaving a running balance of near nil in the current account anyway so nobody can help themselves to it. So this could work well.

Twister84

Natwest First Reserve can send Faster Payments and receive them too.

You cannot set up Direct debits on it, as it is a savings account, but you do get a debit card to use (Now with the restricted ATM access I believe although I've not heard anything as such).

No cheque book with this type of account either.

opinions4u

Recent changes to online banking mean that when I send a payee a payment online, they get to see my sort code and account number within the payment reference.

In all cases?

I've found that this only happens when the recipient already has my details set up for a payment out of their account.

In other words, it's not telling them something they don't already know.

Halifax savings accounts will start supporting FP in the next 3 or 4 weeks.

mrmajika

Surely it is only (bonafide) companies that can set up DD on an account and not individuals?

And in any case the DD guarantee, for what its worth, would cover any such rogue payments.

pelirocco

mrmajika wrote: »

Surely it is only (bonafide) companies that can set up DD on an account and not individuals?

And in any case the DD guarantee, for what its worth, would cover any such rogue payments.

I agree , only certain companies are able to set up direct debits .

alanq

Mark_In_Hampshire wrote: »

I do have a Halifax "e-saver" type account which works with my current account, that doesn't support DDs but on the other hand doesn't support faster payments either.

Bear in mind that by law from 1st January all transfers from banks and building societies must arrive by the end of the next banking day. So not as fast as NatWest which I have found to be close to instant (if the receiving account permits) but still faster than BACS currently offers. Has Halifax announced its plans?

Can you make online transfers directly from the Halifax e-saver account? Nationwide and First Direct, for example, make one move the funds to a current account and then make the transfer.

Mark_In_Hampshire

mrmajika wrote: »

Surely it is only (bonafide) companies that can set up DD on an account and not individuals?

And in any case the DD guarantee, for what its worth, would cover any such rogue payments.

You are correct, and this is what the lady at Halifax told me when I explained how mortified I was at the lack of security.

However I'd assert that it's better that the issue doesn't occur in the first place. If it takes me half an hour to recognise the error and contact the Halifax to sort it out, then surely I should be entitled to whatever the "non dd payment" fee is in reverse for my time sorting out their mistake. As it is they who have been defrauded, not me, though their lax security.

For example, if the recipient actually saw not my sort code and account number, but instead got my debit card number, CVC code and expiry date, they still don't have my 3D Secure password to order online. One piece of data is missing.

When the recipient can see name, sort code and account number, that's all they need to create a direct debit mandate and start debiting money whether it's a company I have a dispute with or an individual out to make mischief.

I can see why people might think me paranoid. So to add some context:

In the past I've had two DD mandates appear to companies I never even traded with, and one which got set back up without my authorisation. In the first two cases I saved the Bank money by catching it and telling them before money was debited, in the third - step forward Nationwide Building Society - they thought it quite reasonable to tell me to pursue the payee for the £75 of bank charges for the two bounced DD attempts, and I thought it reasonable to jump ship, tell them to stuff it, and leave them with a default. For which they summonsed me, I disputed it, and it went no further.

I could do without that hassle.

One of the big ironies about this is that the Ts & Cs of my account have several pages about withdrawals which make it clear that the Bank won't release my funds without my authorisation. Yet, with DD, that's precisely what they do. They accept authorisation by proxy which is not the same thing.

Mark_In_Hampshire

alanq wrote: »

Can you make online transfers directly from the Halifax e-saver account? Nationwide and First Direct, for example, make one move the funds to a current account and then make the transfer.

That's how it is with Halifax online banking. At least at the moment, I looked at their range of other accounts, but none seem to offer electronic payments in/out. But opinions4u's comment above might indicate this will be possible in the future.

Mark_In_Hampshire

opinions4u wrote: »

In all cases?

I've found that this only happens when the recipient already has my details set up for a payment out of their account.

In other words, it's not telling them something they don't already know.

Halifax savings accounts will start supporting FP in the next 3 or 4 weeks.

That I don't know. Certainly when my Mum or partner receive a payment from me they see the details, the former doesn't have an "arrangement" (e.g. payment details) set up to me which shows up online, the latter does (that's Halifax to Co-Op).

If Halifax are planning this then I could just hang around for a few weeks as that solves this.

You'd think they would have known the answers to both of these, wouldn't you