Extortionat Bank Charges - Pls Can You Help Me?

hungryeyes

I am severely disabled and on benefits. My bank Santander had sent me a letter telling me I had gone overdrawn and they were applying bank charges to my account. I looked into why I was overdrawn because as far as I was aware I had money in my account. When I got to the bottom of it, it turns out I was being charged for several items I had ordered from QVC the shopping channel but had not received. I got intouch with QVC who reimbursed me what they had taken from my account but when I asked them to reimburse me the £230 bank charges I incurred as a result of them taking money from my account they refused! It was getting ridiculous with my bank Santander because once your account goes overdrawn like mine did it is hard to pull yourself up from the sea of debt I found myself in which was no fault of my own. Up to July 2011 I had paid Santander £475 in bank charges. I decided I cannot have this anymore because Santander were warning me I had another charge of £75 which was going to be taken out of my account in August the next month.

I decided to change my bank, I did this in July 2011 and at the time of stopping my benefits going through to Santander I owed them 91 pence. BUT - I was then rushed into hospital as I had a fall and had broken my hip and pelvis. I was in hospital a total of 9 weeks, this was partly due to catching an infection whilst in hospital,

My daughter rang Santander today to inform them I would pay the 91p I owed them BUT they told my daughter I owed them £650, my daughter was in shock when she was told that and asked how come it was that amount. It turns out Santander were paying my Direct Debits which incidentally were for my Utility bills, they had paid them for July, Aug, Sept and Oct. In order for me to stop my Direct Debits I had to write in to Santander to ask them to cancel them BUT I ended up being rushed to hospital and therefore didn't get chance to do it. My argument is - Can Santander do this to me? I have not had one penny go into my account since 15th July 2011.

Also my daughter also found out Santander had paid my Direct Debits in Sept andOct but then reclaimed back the money they paid for them BUT they charged me £35 each tiime they paid a Direct Debit and £35 each time they claimed the money back for the Direct Debits they paid

I cannot afford these bank charges , if I were to pay them that would mean Santander would have had £1,135 in bank charges from me - as it stands I have paid them £475 and don't want to pay a penny more to them because I think they should not have paid my Direct Devits when they knew I had no money into my account. I recall in Feb I didn't have enough money in my account for 2 of my Direct Debits and yet they did not pay those so why are they paying them now over a 4 month period when I have had zilch in the bank? It sounds like they are monopolising on me. Please Please Please can anyone help me??? I am really stressed!

dunstonh

My argument is - Can Santander do this to me?

Yes.

They had a direct debit mandate giving your authorisation to pay the utility bills. You never cancelled them and therefore they paid them. As you hadnt set them up elsewhere then at least they got paid.

I have not had one penny go into my account since 15th July 2011.

That is your fault. Not theirs. You chose to redirect the credits to another bank.

Also my daughter also found out Santander had paid my Direct Debits in Sept andOct but then reclaimed back the money they paid for them BUT they charged me £35 each tiime they paid a Direct Debit and £35 each time they claimed the money back for the Direct Debits they paid

Quite normal.

don't want to pay a penny more to them because I think they should not have paid my Direct Devits when they knew I had no money into my account.

Did you tell them that you wanted to run the account with a strict limit on it? Chances are you didnt but left it to their discretion. Banks are damned if they do and damned if they dont here. If they bounce the items, people complain. If they pay the items, people complain. What else are they meant to do if you dont communicate with them?

Please Please Please can anyone help me??? I am really stressed!

The first thing you need to realise is that this if your failure. It may be convenient or even fashionable to blame banks but the bottom line is that you failed to control your finances and left it to the bank to do it for you. That will always result in charges.

Santander apply charges quite fairly in that they refund charges if its the first error you have made in a year.

A complaint about charges being extortionate or unfair will fail. The banks won the court case and complaints on that basis dont win any more. All you can do is let them know the sequence of events and ask them to refund some of the charges as a goodwill gesture.

wigan_rl_till_i_die

Sorry but that reply is pretty much off

You can claim under hardship the banks cant/shouldn't take debts off benefits cause the law says that is what you need to live on

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?36790-Is-the-bank-taking-your-Benefits

Hope this helps you out and good luck

noh

wigan_rl_till_i_die wrote: »

Sorry but that reply is pretty much off

You can claim under hardship the banks cant/shouldn't take debts off benefits cause the law says that is what you need to live on

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?36790-Is-the-bank-taking-your-Benefits

Hope this helps you out and good luck

It is legal for banks to take charges from benefits as the first post in the link you provided states.
A claim can be made under hardship but there is no evidence that the OP is in what is defined as hardship.
Should a claim on the grounds of hardship be successful then there is no obligation for the bank to refund any fees.

bengal-stripe

wigan_rl_till_i_die wrote: »

.....the banks cant/shouldn't take debts off benefits cause the law says that is what you need to live on

This is an urban myth. - 'Bank charges' are not 'charges' in the meaning of the law, they are expenses.

HOWEVER by 'charges' they DO NOT MEAN BANK CHARGES. What is meant is things like attachment of earnings and charging orders.

The Government’s response
The purpose of the Social Security Administration Act 1992 Section 187 and section 45 of the Tax Credits Act 2002 is to prevent people’s benefit money being at risk by it being assigned over to a third party in settlement of a debt. It is not intended to prohibit the application of bank charges. Bank charges are in the nature of an expense, and are incurred by the holder of the account; tax credits and benefits are payable in order to help customers meet their expenses, and as such it is legitimate for banks to deduct charges from the balance of an account held in that bank, whether the money paid into the account comes from tax credits, benefits or other sources, such as earnings.

http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index.php/Benefits_and_the_Social_Security_Administration_Act

hungryeyes

OMG! I know it is my fault but circumstances prevented me from informing Santander that I was finishing my account with them. If I was not suicidal before I am now! - thank you for the replies but all this has done is push me further down in to the black hole I am living in now - I dont want people feeling sorry for me or anything like that I just need help because I can't afford to pay all these charges back to Santander. Banks do not show any compassion for people's circumstances anymore - I remember when I started with my first Bank Account - the manager of my bank a Mr Clark was a gentleman and would ring me on occasions to inform me my account was approaching the agreed overdrawn amount. I used to love banking back then, it was personal and the Manager's of the banks back then were always so helpful. This new bank I am in now actually will text me when I have £50 left in my a/c - why can't all banks do this?

I never thought for Santander would pay my Direct Debits, I was going off last Feb when they refused to pay 2 of my Direct Debits because I did not have enough money in my account.

Santander have been ruthless with me this morning when I pleaded with them to show me understanding because I could not help being ill either but even when they reduced me to tears their compassion was ZERO!, their understanding of my circumstances was ZERO! they want me to pay it all back! To think QVC caused this to happen and they a multi million pound company refused to reimburse my bank charges which incurred because of their carrier who did not deliver the items I ordered but charged my account for them!

I know I come across as a person feeling sorry for myself but I don't care anymore - my life is just an existance anyway - no one cares anymore - this world we live in only care about POWER, MONEY AND GREED! It makes me feel sick and I cannot compete with these giants anymore - thank you to all who replied and thank you for making me feel I have not any hope in this matter too. All I asked for was help but I fel ridiculed for being ill.

dunstonh

I know it is my fault but circumstances prevented me from informing Santander that I was finishing my account with them.

it is not santander's fault either.

Banks do not show any compassion for people's circumstances anymore

Banks are not charities and actually they do consider circumstances. Hence why I said put your case to them and ask for a goodwill gesture. However, if you go in there calling their charges extortionate or unfair then you will not get anywhere.

I remember when I started with my first Bank Account - the manager of my bank a Mr Clark was a gentleman and would ring me on occasions to inform me my account was approaching the agreed overdrawn amount.

All very well and good but the typical UK consumer doesnt want that. Or rather, they would like that but dont want to pay for it. You have to remember that in the past you had to have a credit balance over a certain amount to get free banking. Go back further and you didnt have free banking.

Bank service is not a patch on what it used to be but then people dont want to pay. So, they get the service that they are willing to pay for.

Santander have been ruthless with me this morning when I pleaded with them to show me understanding because I could not help being ill either but even when they reduced me to tears their compassion was ZERO!, their understanding of my circumstances was ZERO! they want me to pay it all back! To think QVC caused this to happen and they a multi million pound company refused to reimburse my bank charges which incurred because of their carrier who did not deliver the items I ordered but charged my account for them!

Make a complaint to QVC then.

this world we live in only care about POWER, MONEY AND GREED!

Correct. And consumers think the same way too. You just have to read some of the posts people make here about getting more money out of firms. It works both ways.

and thank you for making me feel I have not any hope in this matter too

You dont have much hope in this matter so there is no point wrapping it up in cotton wool and telling you that you have. You are totally reliant on Santander goodwill. As you have taken your banking elsewhere there is little reason for them to give you much goodwill.

All I asked for was help but I fel ridiculed for being ill.

No-one has ridiculed you for being ill. No-one has ridiculed you at all. You have just been told the cold hard truth as it currently stands with regards to charges. Not what you wanted to hear of course. I know you probably wanted a thread with people agreeing with you and telling you that you can get all the money paid off but that isnt going to help you.

Your best bet now is to formally complain in writing to QVC for taking money that they shouldnt have. You should also write to Santander Customer Relations asking them to consider your case. Not the local branch as they often have little scope to refund anything. You need the customer relations/complaints team to look at it. Dont go saying its unfair etc. Point out what happened and why and let them make a judgement on it.

the_insider

How much would you owe i the direct debits hadn't been paid? Would you have come out of hospital to a house with no gas, electric or water with four months of bills to pay and a court order for unpaid council tax?

This is the reason that banks offer a switching service, if you'd used Lloyds service then you wouldn't have had to do anything. And just for the record, writing to Santander telling them not to pay the direct debits wouldn't necessarily have stopped this from happening if you hadn't also told the payees that you were changing banks as well because they would still have pulled the money out of the account.

Make sure that all your direct debits are now moved and offer Santander an amount you can afford each month.

YorkshireBoy

hungryeyes wrote: »

When I got to the bottom of it, it turns out I was being charged for several items I had ordered from QVC the shopping channel but had not received.

To think QVC caused this to happen

I'm struggling to see why the goods not being delivered is relevant here?

You placed an order and so should have budgeted for the payments to leave your account...surely?

Unless they were for some life essentials (unlikely from such as QVC?) such as medication, which you had to purchase from elsewhere instead perhaps?

mitch161

my tough love and hopefully positive advice after.

first of all QVC were not to blame that you received bank charges. whether goods are delivered or not delivered the money side of it is to do with ensuring you had the money in the bank. QVC would not pay the bank charges. all that can would/should do is refund the payment of goods/service.

next you are on benefits.. just saying this to the bank is not enough.. just saying the words hardship is not enough either. but here is what needs to be done.

sit down with a calculator and get the total sum of these 3 items.
rent/mortgage costs (keep roof over head)
water rates (keep you watered and washed)
electricity and gas (keeps you warm and enlightened)

this total is the raw bottom line of funds you need to live on. i say raw. becuase the next thing to add is of course food. which is more variable as trying to work out a minimum spend for the RAW-BASIC-MINIMAL requirements for a healthy daily diet takes longer.

for me i can live only spending £7 a week on food. sometimes less. (and i am a big lad with a big appetite) potatos and asda basics frozen veg/basic meat go along way for little money.

add up the bank charges they have charged you each month and deduct any charges that have been caused by you over spending. EG dont include the first charge from the QVC purchase.

easiest way to imagine it. is to pretend that you were not charged for QVC payment. and if that did not happen would that cascade mean you never went into overdraft. if so then include the other charges, if however you cleared the QVC debt and then few months later you got charged again for a totally different purchase which had no other charge repayments to have pushed the purchase into over draft then you have to exclude the charge of the second purchase..

basically if every month there was a charge which pushed all normal purchases into the overdraft then include them. (snowbal effect) but if the charges got paid up and there was a gap. then the first charge after gap needs to be excluded.

so now you should have a total figure of ur utility bills and a total for charges incurred (ONLY DUE TO A SNOWBALLING EFFECT OF CHARGES)

by looking at your story and guessing a few things in between i would probably word the letter like this using exampled figured not actual figures

"I am currently on benefits and although i fully acknowledge that i made a mistake with a payment with QVC in XX/XX/2011 the bank charges have now caused me to be in a state of hardship.

my essential out goings of house rent/utility bills is £150 and my benefit income is £180. this leaves me with £30 for my food and mobility needs due to disability. for the last couple months i have not been able to have a stable diet or to be independently mobile due to banking charges. and with winter approaching i can see my costs of living increasing due to the seasons/weather

again i fully acknowledge that i have made a mistake with the QVC payment, but that charge of £30 have rippled on for months causing me to now be in a state of hardship. i am already suffering with symptoms of depression due to hardship, and also due to lack of independance/mobility caused by the lack of funds.

i wish to seek that the total sum of charges £400 be refunded to me. i have calculated that if the QVC charge of £30 were not applied then the some of £400 would not have occured. i would have pleaded to your good will for the full amount of charges including the QVC charge totaling £430 but in fairness on both parts i wish to seek the minimum of £400 which is the charges caused by the ripple effect and not by any excessive spending on my part."

ok it sounds waffly, but thats because its not a letter to the bank. its a way of making you understand what should be included in a first contact letter. i told a friend of mine to write a email to the bank (halifax) stating ho the one off charge snowballed into multiple charges and how the charges have caused financial burden and also what the effects of the financial hardship/burden have/will cause (worse case scenario of next couple weeks/months). the next day that person got a phone call and received all the funds asked for. so halifax do a great job if you word it right.

its important to put the worse case scenario .. probably more important then just stating the word hardship. but still ensure you use the word hardship in your contact.

dont be all legal about it at first point of contact. saying its your right for a refund. just keep it to your personal facts. if they do not reply. let the second contact have the legal jargon about not supporting someone in hardship. remember the banks are not psychic. so give them the goodwill chance to inform them of your hard ship before being demanding. it works

key things to ensure you mention.. the word hardship.... but WHY and how you are in hardship. Also how it has AND will effect you if it continues