How much notice to I have to give to leave? Bit tricky...

Eskimo12345

Situation:

• Rented property, 12 month contracts
• Landlord sent termination of tenancy on 27th June (via letting agent) to expire on 27th August
• Agent phoned two weeks later agent phones saying landlord's changed his mind and asking me to stay
• I said yes but did not confirm in writing
• I now want to move in with my OH

So how much notice do I have to give? The contract says two months but I'm sure I read somewhere that after the notice expires, the tenancy automatically changes to a monthly rolling contract which means I have to give one months notice, but I can't find this on any official site (ie, government site, not a forum!).

Does anyone have a link to what notice I have to give in this situation?

theartfullodger

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/renting_and_leasehold/private_tenancies/assured_shorthold_tenancies#2

Notice

If you have a periodic tenancy (which means that the original fixed-term has ended and your tenancy runs from week to week or month to month), you have to give one month's notice in writing, or longer if you pay your rent less often. The notice should end on the first or last day of the period of a tenancy. Once the notice ends, your tenancy ends and you no longer have any right to live in your home.

So, if (I'm guessing) original tenancy was 28th Aug 2010 to 27th Aug 2011, monthly paid rent, regardless of what day-of-month rent is paid, if you serve notice Monday am (in writing mind...) then it cannot expire before 27th December 2011. (So almost 2 months, sorry!)

As it will be Xmas the checkout meeting should be fun 27th morning...

Agent may claim they require 2 months, I believe that incorrect...

Best of luck living with OH: Hope he/she thinks & knows Dave is not awesome...

Cheers!

Artful (Landlord since 2000..)

PS Agents original notice invalid as if sent 27th June, what with days allowed for mail service, you wouldn't have had your statutory 2 months notice.. Gosh, an agent getting something wrong.... LL still needs to give 2 months in periodic, tenant as you remember only 1 month...

Eskimo12345

Thanks mate.

It's a bit annoying that I'll have to give nigh on two months notice and pay an extra months rent due to the dates!

I guess the good(ish) news is that I don't have to give notice until the end of next month, which will make me feel a little better as the landlord upped my rent then put the place up for sale a few days later.

Thanks again,

Eski

Yorkie1

When he upped your rent, was that at the end of the previous fixed term? Are you sure you haven't inadvertently signed up to a new tenancy?

G_M

* Your '12 month contract'. It HAS ended hasn't it?
* And you didn't sign a new one? So you are on a Periodic tenancy?
* As the agent has not withdrawn the Notice in writing (just phone) you could claim to know nothing of this and rely on the written notice you received...... oops!
* Though as Artful says, the original Notice may have been invalid
* there again, you could say that by agreeing to the agent's original Notice (in writing?) you and the agent have mutually agreed to terminate the tenancy - as long as it is mutual this can be done in shorter timescales than the law lays down
* Otherwise, Artful's explanation of the Notice you need to give is correct
* how did he 'up the rent'? Did he follow the correct proceedure?
* You do realise that you can refuse all visits by Estate Agents, prospective buyers, surveyors etc if you wish? This may give you a bargaining position: "I'll let people look round the property if you let me end the tenancy early".

Eskimo12345

OK, a little more info:

• Tenancy is 1-year AST from 9th July year 1 to 8th July year 2
• In early June (before notice was served) , new 1 year contract with rent increase was signed, effective 09/07/11-08/07/12
• 27th June, notice served, terminating 27th August
• Early July, phone call from agent asking me to stay
• Late July, letter arrives from agent asking me to confirm my intention to stay in writing - I didn't reply

Have just drafted this letter:

Re: <property adress>

Dear Sir/Madam,

Earlier this year I received notice of Termination of Tenancy for the property referenced above, taking effect from 27th June and terminating on 27th August. Soon after I received a phone call from Hertiage asking me to stay in the property. As no new contract was issued, when the Assured Shorthold Tenancy terminated on the 27th August, the tenancy automatically changed from an Assured Shorthold Tenancy to a Periodic Tenancy, continuing to commence from the 9th of each month.

In accordance with the law for Periodic Tenancies, I am advising you that I am giving my one month's notice to end my tenancy on the last day of the period of the tenancy, on December 8th, 2011.

Please can you confirm receipt of this letter and let me know the check-out procedure.


Best regards,



<My name>

DVardysShadow

Eskimo12345 wrote: »

OK, a little more info:

• Tenancy is 1-year AST from 9th July year 1 to 8th July year 2
• In early June (before notice was served) , new 1 year contract with rent increase was signed, effective 09/07/11-08/07/12
• 27th June, notice served, terminating 27th August
• Early July, phone call from agent asking me to stay
• Late July, letter arrives from agent asking me to confirm my intention to stay in writing - I didn't reply

The S21 notice served early June is invalidated by the contract being offered to you - unless the contract was issued before the S21 notice and you can prove this. There are a few more subtleties, but the essence is that I think you are in a 1 year contract now.

theartfullodger

Think DVS right, think you are contracted to July 2012... call Shelter, 0808 800 4444 for free advice to check..

Eskimo12345

DVardysShadow wrote: »

The S21 notice served early June is invalidated by the contract being offered to you - unless the contract was issued before the S21 notice and you can prove this. There are a few more subtleties, but the essence is that I think you are in a 1 year contract now.

YES! The contract was signed BEFORE the notice was issued.

G_M

The legally significant factor is:

new 1 year contract with rent increase was signed, effective 09/07/11-08/07/12

That, combined with the fact that a) you stayed in occupation into this new Fixed Term and b) started paying the rent agreed for the new Fixed Term means you are commited till 8/7/12.

Everything else is irrelevant.

Your only way out is by negotiation and agreement.

DVardysShadow

Eskimo12345 wrote: »

YES! The contract was signed BEFORE the notice was issued.

And returned before the notice was issued?

You have 2 possible lines of argument here and you have to choose just 1

• The renewed contract was invalidated by the s21 notice, and you are a tenant under s21 notice. So you ask for a checkout and hand back the keys. You do not issue your own notice, as that would concede you are not under the s21.
• The renewed contract was invalidated by the s21 notice, but the s21 notice has lapsed or been invalidated by the phone conversation. You are now a statutory periodic tenant and you give 1 months notice to end at the end of a rental period.

The other argument which could stand is

• The renewed contract stands, because the s21 was not followed through and the phone conversation effectively withdraws the s21

Overall, you are in a bit f a legal limbo and the answers will not be clear cut.