Constructive Dismissal??

sls1365

I have worked for my company in a fairly senior position since July 2010.

My line manager lost the plot with me in a phone call last month. She swore at me several times - f**king being her word of choice. The reason she lost it with me is that there has been a massive change to my job description without any consultation with me and I was raising concerns. In the end, she told me to comply or leave.

Add into this that I was getting totally opposing instructions from senior managers and simply didn't know what they wanted me to do. My line manager wouldn't answer any of my questions when I tried to clarify the situation. She then continued to be obnoxious for three weeks at which point I became ill and have had to take 3 weeks off work.

I raised a grievance about it. This covered a) the swearing b) the opposing instructions and c) the lack of clarity.

At the grievance hearing today (my union rep came with me) I was given an "off the record" offer of £11k to leave, before the grievance was heard. I was absolutely stunned, turned it down and then asked for the grievance to be heard.

It was heard and at the end of it, the HR bod told me, again, off the record, that he feels from the point of the company, that the damage to the relationship was such that he didn't see how it could continue.

I said that I didn't want to accept the offer, and that in the current climate it wasn't enough. As a single mum with 2 kids, I daren't take that amount with the current economic climate as it is. I said that I want a year's salary to leave.

Later, in the afternoon, the HR bod called back to say that they didnt want to pay a year's salary, so they will see me at work on Monday morning and that we have to have a meeting to see "how we can build bridges".

Now that he has basically told me that there is no future for me with the company and they have offered me money to make me and/or the grievance to go away, I don't feel I can return to work. Is this a case for constructive dismissal??

phathanded

Take the advice of your Union rep. I have learned today that they know what they are talking about. If you can get advice from someone from the unions regional office that would be even better. Ask if your Union rep/delegate can join you in your meeting to 'build bridges' and express all your concerns. Make sure it is all noted officially so you have extra evidence if you feel your position is completely comprimised. I feel for you completely. I have been going through my own work issues recently and it is hard.

cavework

Later, in the afternoon, the HR bod called back to say that they didnt want to pay a year's salary, so they will see me at work on Monday morning and that we have to have a meeting to see "how we can build bridges".
Go in on Monday
Forget off the record offers , give ACAS a call in the meantime and discuss the situation with them.

dandelionclock30

Its very hard proving a constructive dismissal and I think only about 3% of cases are proven. Will your co workers help out out with supporting statements.You can bet your bottom dollar they wont do.Also is it just your line managers word against yours that she was swearing at you?
If they want you gone-even if you return they will be waiting in the wings for the slightest mistake and then they will claim its gross misconduct and your gone. Build Bridges- no such thing. Can you really work for the next how long being watched like a hawk? Your line manager will not forget this and will bide her time.
They've offerred you money- your gone whether its now or in 6 months time. I'd think again about negotiating a better exit for yourself.

sls1365

Although no one overheard my line manager swearing at me - she is very well known for having a foul mouth and the probability that she did so is overwhelming. My staff have said that they will support me if I want to get tough.

What would you think is a reasonable amount? £11k is 4 months gross pay - I'm on 3 month's notice anyway.

dandelionclock30

I would see an employment law solicitor and try to get the best package for myself possible. I dont know whats a reasonable amount for you, they would be able to advise you better than me.
It will be a very uncomfortable environment at your workplace after this.
Although the staff say they would support you, do you really think they will put in statements and give evidence against their employer in a tribunal if push comes to shove! How long will their jobs last then? They wont do it.

SarEl

I am afraid that I have to agree. Unfortunately it is now you who has lost the plot. The previous poster is correct - less than 3% of constructive unfair dismissal cases win, the burden of proof being on you throughout any such case. And no matter what your employees say, I would agree that come the revolution, they will be firmly on the side of the barricades that contain their employer. Very, very occasionally, one or two emplyees have the courage (also known as both morals - and outright stupidity) to give evidence that will almost certainly lose them their job. They will be painted as the troublemakers in the camp, and there will be 20 witnesses for each one of them showing that you and they are the problem.

Much as I sympathise with your personal circumstances, they are not relevant in the slightest. A tribunal doesn't care about your living arrangements or personal economics. If you win, and to be honest, that is most unlikely, it will be in several months time - after you have resigned of course, and are without any income. It may be a lot longer than that - if the employer plays their hand right you could be still hanging around for 12 - 18 months. During which time your reference isn't exactly going to be sterling. The last place you want to be is in a tribunal. Which might, if you are very very lucky and win, and then lucky some more, award you 6 - 9 months salary equivalent.

This is a different game, and you have just broke the rules. It isn't irreparable, but you need to get ground back. They want you gone. Get used to that. Sorry, but you have no future in this company. Forget ACAS - you want a solcitor. An employment law specialist. They offered you three months, you countered with 12 (so far so good). But when they refused you were supposed to say I will consdier my position - then counter offer again. Luckily, you may be able to pull that back - counter-offers are usually a few days in the making. If you (or your solicitor if you take my advice and get one) are good, you should settle for between 6 - 9 months salary equivalent ( I will come back to this) - realistically probably closer to 6 than to 9 unless you are super good at negotiating. But you also negotiate for a super reference, a binding compromise agreement and make sure that the only thing that they can say about you or your employment is what is contained in the reference. The reference alone is worth 6 months wages - because that is what it will cut off your job search time compared to not having one.

As for the money side - you negotiate figures - not salary ever. Salary is taxable - an agreed lump sum isn't if you tie up the deal right, or not until after £30k anyway. Depends on how senior you are as to whether that is the case or not. You gross up - so take your gross salary, times it by the number of months you are negotiating for, the round it to a figure nearby in whole £'s. Make it clear you are negotiating a tax free settlement figure - nothing to do with salary. This way you up the amount to your gross and with the tax free element you can afford to be a little more flexible if it comes to them balking. Assuming that you have two year contribution record you will get JSA contributions nbased for six months too - ok, not much but every little helps.

sls1365

cavework wrote: »

Go in on Monday
Forget off the record offers , give ACAS a call in the meantime and discuss the situation with them.

Interestingly, my lawyer friend (criminal unfortunately or I'd be quizzing him) says on or off the record is irrelevant and that anything said counts....

sls1365

Thanks SarEl for a very frank and informative post. I didn't really think about the fact that I was supposed to say "oh right, I don't want 11, you don't want to pay 32 - so what can we agree on?". But now, in the cold light of the following morning, I see quite clearly. I'd better get on to it.

Thanks again - I really, really appreciate it.

soolin

sls1365 wrote: »

Interestingly, my lawyer friend (criminal unfortunately or I'd be quizzing him) says on or off the record is irrelevant and that anything said counts....

Technically he is correct- but then it is still one persons word against another, so if the other party interpreted the conversation differently and stuck to her story then nothing can be proven.

sls1365

soolin wrote: »

Technically he is correct- but then it is still one persons word against another, so if the other party interpreted the conversation differently and stuck to her story then nothing can be proven.

But, thankfully, everything that was said off the record, was said in front of my union rep...