MSE News: Solar subsidies to be slashed under government plans

zeupater

magyar wrote: »

Nice idea but very unlikely to be workable under EU law which makes it alost impossible to 'target' subsidies.

Hi

Easily workable .... all it would take is a clause to define distributed assets owned by the same organisation or individual to be aggregated for FiT band classification, this would automatically bring the R-A-R installations into the 50kWp+ banding and a more appropriate payment.

Considering the scale of installations and absence of up-front profit from sales, the R-A-R scheme operators are already benefiting from lower costs than a single purchase, therefore there should be no problem whatsoever in convincing the EU that this is nothing other than a correction of the existing system.

HTH
Z

chris1973

mo786uk wrote: »

The weird thing is - lost of companies have popped up to offer free solar panels - if it is now not worth it - does that not mean loads of people out of a job?

The potential loss of Jobs would be far more relevant if we had entire factories across the UK employing 100's - 1000's of people actually designing and building the panels being fitted, but as just like the Vehicle Scrappage scheme, the lions share of any economy boost is handed to other countries.

What about the potential loss of Jobs as a result of UK Manufacturers and companies already paying an average of 10% more for Energy than similar companies in Germany (As the linked report gives as an example)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/8853665/UK-manufacturers-pay-10pc-more-for-electricity-than-German-rivals.html

What will happen to UK Jobs if these energy prices continue to increase over rivals in other countries, won't more UK manufacturers 'do a Dyson' and just move factories and production to countries where utility and manufacturing costs are lower?. How many Jobs lost there?

Cardew

mo786uk wrote: »

The weird thing is - lost of companies have popped up to offer free solar panels - if it is now not worth it - does that not mean loads of people out of a job?

Yes it will.

However it would be cheaper to employ half of them digging holes and the other half filling in the holes.

You cannot justify retaining stupid practices kept afloat by huge subsidies on the grounds that it keeps people in employment.

When the railways were losing £billions and getting massive subsidies, wasn't it the Railway Unions that insisted that the firemen from the bygone days of steam locamotives were kept on the footplate - otherwise they would lose their jobs?

zeupater

chris1973 wrote: »

.... I wonder how many of these panels are even produced in factories in the UK?, thus making roll out more worthwhile?, probably very few, if any?, so not even a boost to UK manufacturing then?, how much investment has been put into the UK to produce this technology beyond salespeople seeing £ signs in commission in return for fitting imported panels, boosting the economy in other countries? ....

Hi

Something that I'm always banging on about :wall: ... surprised you've missed it .... ...... anyway, on panels the UK choice is between Sharp & Romag, most decent inverters being German .....

HTH
Z

mo786uk

Cardew wrote: »

Yes it will.

However it would be cheaper to employ half of them digging holes and the other half filling in the holes.

You cannot justify retaining stupid practices kept afloat by huge subsidies on the grounds that it keeps people in employment.

When the railways were losing £billions and getting massive subsidies, wasn't it the Railway Unions that insisted that the firemen from the bygone days of steam locamotives were kept on the footplate - otherwise they would lose their jobs?

Indeed, but that doesnt mean the Government wouldn't - and I woudl be quite surprised if they made a decision just like that which could cause jobs havoc.

No doubt will be big opposition from the solar companies.

I woudl have thought any changes will be phased in.

Cardew

Whilst Sharp do employ people in Wales, they are essentially assembling Japanese goods from a Japanese firm. Do we consider a Toyota made in France or Derbyshire to be French or English?

zeupater

mo786uk wrote: »

The weird thing is - lost of companies have popped up to offer free solar panels - if it is now not worth it - does that not mean loads of people out of a job?

Hi

Considering what the R-A-R operators are now paying for the systems compared to the average purchaser there's still likely to be enough for it to still be worthwhile ..... if the reduction is at the level mentioned it's likely that the biggest effect will be on the installers and wholesalers ... they'll just need to slash their (currently considerable) margins to keep consumers interested, so a considerable number will merge/fold or find something else to do or sell ....

HTH
Z

magyar

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

Easily workable .... all it would take is a clause to define distributed assets owned by the same organisation or individual to be aggregated for FiT band classification, this would automatically bring the R-A-R installations into the 50kWp+ banding and a more appropriate payment.

Considering the scale of installations and absence of up-front profit from sales, the R-A-R scheme operators are already benefiting from lower costs than a single purchase, therefore there should be no problem whatsoever in convincing the EU that this is nothing other than a correction of the existing system.

HTH
Z

I don't think it's as easy as doing that. I'm not at all an expert on the FIT because I only really work with large-scale projects, but if it's anything like the RO, you have to base the qualifications upon the actual installation - you cannot refer to the 'type' of owner.

chris1973

Whilst Sharp do employ people in Wales, they are essentially assembling Japanese goods from a Japanese firm. Do we consider a Toyota made in France or Derbyshire to be French or English?

Depends on many factors. Largely how long will it continue operations in the UK in the midst of rising costs? such as Energy which i've already mentioned.

I used to work for a company who supplied ERF Trucks with components, they got taken over by MAN in Germany, and whilst they kept the UK assembly side going for a few years, eventually it closed with the loss of 600 Jobs, not to mention 1000's of 'unseen' others due to the knock on closure of third party UK suppliers whose business revolved around being suppliers to them.

Cadbury's is another example.

In short, its not a secure future working for largely foreign owned companies, which sadly now form the bulk of any remaining mainstream UK manufacturing. There is no real money involved in 'kit building'.

I dont (personally) believe that the UK has a strong future simply by being a cheap assembly house for imported goods which arrive by the container load. The future lies in (re)creating the manufacturing levels we once had, back in the days when the UK was actually the mentor to at least one Japanese car manufacturer back in the 1960's........

Slightly O.T I know, but relevant in the fact that maybe we need to be doing what other countries seem to do, and when an idea such as Solar Power roll out is created we need to be asking, as country, whats in it for us? rather than "are we being a martyr to it"

On the basis of rollout of the manufacturing of the technology within the UK, I personally would believe that Solar Power was a stronger investment, not only in saving money on bills for those fortunate to be able to afford them, but also for the 'local' jobs which they would create (beyond a few salespeople and installers)

What we really need is a workable 'green' idea which boosts manufacturing levels in the UK back to those which the car industry (as an example) once had four decades ago, when British Leyland alone, employed over 200,000 people.

Cardew

In the case of solar PV it was always an employment 'bubble' fuelled by a finite amount of FIT.

The bubble has burst earlier than expected because the funds were being gobbled up too quickly - mainly by the Rent a Roof companies.