Help worried sick here. Gross Misconduct

ILW

It would be very difficult for a manager to command any respect for his people in the future if his first reaction is to "run to teacher" at some totally unproven slight against him.
I would suspect that the guy is not management material and is using the equality card to compensate, whilst the employer is terrified about the legislation and the costs a complaint could involve.
If this had been a junior employee who was being "bullied" by a senior it would be a different matter.

DVardysShadow

Emmzi wrote: »

To me it seems you are holding 2 contradictory viewpoints at the same time.

You protect people or you don't.

You don't.

You stick to stating your own opinion, not [mis]characterising mine. You know perfectly well that I have acknowledged the position of the guy in the corner

Rather than holding 2 contradictory viewpoints, I am pointing out that while the Law is required to protect the guy in the corner of the messroom, when it gets involved in the affairs of the guy in the centre of the messroom, it will make an brass of itself.

And I am pointing out that illfounded application of the law can have unintended adverse consequences for the guy in the corner.

On this issue, if people act like demented daleks saying 'The Law must apply, The Law must apply', then it could result in worse exclusion and isolation for the guys in the corners, because the discrimination will be more subtle. If people then react by saying 'The Law must apply, The Law must apply' even more insistently, you then ultimately end up legislating for everyone to have to like gays and blacks.

Just think of the effect of this disciplinary on the OP. He is not homophobic. But I can guarantee that from now on, regardless of the outcome, he is going to be more aware of who in his workplace is gay - and the guys in the corners don't particularly want this! And this awareness is going to be negative in that he is going to tend to avoid contact or engagement for fear of a repeat.

Emmzi

I'd rather have daleks. Do what you want at home, but the workplace is for work.

I find your last post offensive and discriminatory.

DVardysShadow

Emmzi wrote: »

I find your last post offensive and discriminatory.

You are probably a minority.

Education and positive example has so much more to offer that The Law and sulking.

Sambucus_Nigra

DVardysShadow wrote: »

And I am pointing out that illfounded application of the law can have unintended adverse consequences for the guy in the corner.

And how is investigating people who may or may not have said a comment that was overheard by a manager [a personal comment it would seem, of a derogatory nature] ill-founded?

From the manager's point of view, a comment was heard and they have instigated [presumably] a procedure to deal with it. The OP says they didn't heard it but also cannot ID a person who might have said it. The company do not know whether the OP is lying, but as we do not know the exact nature of the comment or the way it was said, we can't really comment on whether it is ill-founded or not.

As far as I can see, the OP might well end up being a scapegoat but if it prevents others from doing it again then it has been dealt with and hopefully won't re-occur. The manager is perhaps not acting so much for their situation, but on behalf of the person in the corner who is sick to death of this banter. It's not about going running to teacher, but about effectively dealing with abusive comments in the workplace so that they are stamped out.

Emmzi

DVardysShadow wrote: »

You are probably a minority.

Education and positive example has so much more to offer that The Law and sulking.

Maybe. Doesn't mean I don't have rights whether or not I choose to shout about them. Which is kind of the point.

jem16

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Rather than holding 2 contradictory viewpoints, I am pointing out that while the Law is required to protect the guy in the corner of the messroom, when it gets involved in the affairs of the guy in the centre of the messroom, it will make an brass of itself.

Far better to risk making a "brass" of itself with the guy in the centre who is clearly capable of handling himself, than risk the guy in the corner going under because he can't handle it.

Jokes at other people's expense in the workplace should never be tolerated as more often than not it is only the perpetrator who really finds it funny. You also cannot be sure that the guy giving as good back is doing so because he is happy with the treatment or doing so through a false show of bravado.

dandelionclock30

Its best just to be quiet in the workplace and not joke about anything because there will be always someone who will take offence even if its just a funny joke about a cup of tea or something.Someone will say it was discriminatory against tea drinkers or something equally as daft.
Where I used to work,unless it was hello, goodbye or has anyone seen the hole punch? then someone would get offended and run to the boss.
In order to keep yourself safe it best to just stick to the basics.Its not like being with your friends down the pub or with your family.Take it from someone who has lived and learned on this!

Sambucus_Nigra

dandelionclock30 wrote: »

Its best just to be quiet in the workplace and not joke about anything because there will be always someone who will take offence even if its just a funny joke about a cup of tea or something.Someone who say it was discriminatory against tea drinkers or something equally as daft.
Where I used to work,unless it was hello, goodbye or has anyone seen the hole punch? then someone would get offended and run to the boss.
In order to keep yourself safe it best to just stick to the basics.Its not like being with your friends down the pub or with your family.Take it from someone who has lived and learned on this!

If you really can't tell the difference between general chat and comments that should not enter the workplace, then I really feel sorry for you.

I've quoted this as you posted it and already deleted it once. So obviously you yourself are not sure about this.

dandelionclock30

I can tell the difference but others cant always thank you.
In fact I feel sorry for you because you obviously dont realise this.
I'll adjust my posts as I wish thanks who are you the post police?