CCJ issued, can't pay, help please!

JGWT8M

I've had a CCJ issued against me, it was expected but not in the manner it was, some of you will know I defended a case on the basis I had already paid, the Claimant amended their case after I'd submitted my defence and then produced documents I'd been asking for for months but they'd refused to supply.

Once I got these documents it was clear the money was owed, so I did as Payplan advised and completed the admittance form and sent it off to the claimant.

The Claimant rejected my offer of payments and the Court has now issued the CCJ for the full amount, I don't even have £10 to my name let alone £6k which I'm supposed to pay in the next 14 days!!!!!

I know I have 16 days to "appeal" this decision which I will do, but one thing is really really bugging me, and I hope someone can answer it before my head explodes?

When the Claimant rejects an offer of payment and asks the Court to decide what I should pay, is the Court made aware of my financial circumstances??

When I sent the Admittance Form to the claimant, it was quiet clear that I was is so much debt that I couldn't even pay my household bills let alone what they wanted, what bugs me is if the Court were made aware of my massive debt and DMP, why the hell have they issued the judgement for the full amount - to me it looks like the court has done what the claimant asked (in their rejection letter which doesn't detail my debt), and if that's the case I can understand it, but if the court already know I'm up debt creek without a paddle, why have they done this?

Sorry for the long post, but this is really eating me up.

thesaint

The Court would have no choice but to give a judgement for the total amount if that is what the claimant is owed. What else would they award?

The court would look at your financial situation and decide what you can afford to pay, this could be more or less than what you offered originally.

JGWT8M

Obviously I know that

Maybe I didn't put it clearly, when I sent back the admittance form, everything was detailed on there and it's obvious that I only have £75 a month to split between 6 creditors, (all the other creditors are happy with the DMP).

What I'm asking is, if the Court WAS aware that I only have £75 available a month, why did they issue me a Judgement saying I had to pay the full £6k within 14 days? Why didn't they say "pay £75 a month for 80 months?"

Was it because the Court was not provided with details of my financial circumstances by the claimant? (i.e is the claimant requireed to supply these details or can they just say no way and not privde them) This would not suprise me at all.

justruth

My advice, and it is the very best that I can come up with is to get down to the CAB asap and get some legal advice. They can help you appeal the order and allow you to pay it off a bit at a time.

sgx.saint

http://www.payplan.com/frequently-asked-questions/county-court-judgements.php

JGWT8M

Thanks for the link sgx.saint, unfortunately it looks like the Court either didn't follow procedure or didn't get the information from the Claimant when they rejected my offer of installments:

If you agree you owe the money, the court will require your income and expenditure details. The court will then look through these details and apply guidelines to your expenditure and will set the order for the amount you can realistically afford. You are then required to make that payment until the CCJ is paid off.

As far as I can find out, because the CCJ has been issued for the full amount without any opportunity to pay by installments (refused by the claimant), I can ask the Court to "Re-Determination" the ruling and have the case heard by a District Judge who will take into account my income and make a ruling based on that rather than what the claimant wants (who by all accounts won't rest until I'm dead - no joke).

The Judgement was issued by a Deputy District Judge, who I've been told is a Court Official and not a full District Judge, which is good for me kind of.

We've come to the conclusion that the claimant didn't pass on my income and expenditure statements to the court when they refused my offer, which really doesn't suprise me given the history of the case (it's happened before more than once - they "forgot" to enter some evidence into the claim and then had to amend it)

Can anybody confirm if my theory is right about "Re-Determination"?

Thanks everbody

thesaint

You keep mentioning about sending paperwork to the Claimant, did you attend court yourself? Did you send your defence to the court as well as the claimant?

I have not read through your previous posts so I don't know your case.

shameless-about-money

JGWT8M wrote:

Thanks for the link sgx.saint, unfortunately it looks like the Court either didn't follow procedure or didn't get the information from the Claimant when they rejected my offer of installments:



As far as I can find out, because the CCJ has been issued for the full amount without any opportunity to pay by installments (refused by the claimant), I can ask the Court to "Re-Determination" the ruling and have the case heard by a District Judge who will take into account my income and make a ruling based on that rather than what the claimant wants (who by all accounts won't rest until I'm dead - no joke).

The Judgement was issued by a Deputy District Judge, who I've been told is a Court Official and not a full District Judge, which is good for me kind of.

We've come to the conclusion that the claimant didn't pass on my income and expenditure statements to the court when they refused my offer, which really doesn't suprise me given the history of the case (it's happened before more than once - they "forgot" to enter some evidence into the claim and then had to amend it)

Can anybody confirm if my theory is right about "Re-Determination"?

Thanks everbody

All of this is normal.

The CCJ has established that you owe £xxxx.

You now send in your paperwork for redetermination, with your SoA and the Court will decide how much payment you can afford.

Bossyboots

thesaint wrote:

You keep mentioning about sending paperwork to the Claimant, did you attend court yourself? Did you send your defence to the court as well as the claimant?

I have not read through your previous posts so I don't know your case.

This is what has been puzzling me. The OP should have sent the details of financial position to the court themselves. The claimant is hardly going to offer up that information unless specifically asked to by the court and it is certainly not the claimant's job to file the defendant's paperwork.

JGWT8M - You seem to be under the impression that a Deputy District Judge is something less than a District Judge and that it is a good thing the order was made by them. That is not the case and it is irrelevant whether the resident District Judge of the area made the order or a deputy. http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/about_judiciary/roles_types_jurisdiction/judicial_profiles/feepaid/index.htm

Tootsie_Roll

In addition to all of the above your financial position is irrelevant when it comes to awarding the CCJ initially. I think you are confusing the judgement being awarded with the subsequent 'terms of repaying the judgement'. If you owe the creditor £5k that is the sum judgement will be entered for (+ fees) - you then arrange to pay that back. They don't just enter judgment for the amount you can afford to pay back - completely different.

JGWT8M

Thanks for the comments, you guys seem to have mis-understood what I was saying, of course I expected the judgement to be the full amount, but I understood that as the claimant refused the offer, the court would then look at my circumstances and decide a repayment schedule that I could afford, it's this bit that seems to have been missed.

This is what has been puzzling me. The OP should have sent the details of financial position to the court themselves.

@ bossyboots, that's not at all how it works, the "claimant" sues you for a specific amount, if you admit the claim, you send the paperwork to the "claimant", it's then up to the claimant to inform the court if they accept the repayment proposal or reject it and they inform the court of their decision and then the court issues the judgement - you don't send it to the Court, if you do you're deemed to have not responded to the original summons.

You only communicate with the Court if you defend the action or make a part admission.

The case was originally defended, withdrawn, re-entered, withdrawn and then re-entered again once these clowns actually got their act together, it's been running for 6 months so far and I never expected to win, nor wanted to avoid paying, it is the manner in which they (the Claimant) have handled this last bit that is leaving me a bit confused, I was under the impression they were supposed to forward my admittance form to the court when they gave their decision but it looks like they didn't do this, I'll find out for sure tomorrow.

@ shameless-about-money, thank you so much, that's exactly what I though I had to do.

Another thing that caused confusion is the Judgement says "if you disagree with the schedule of repayments ordered" - what schedule?, there isn't one.