CCJ issued, can't pay, help please!

thesaint

You say that there isn't a schedule of repayments, but in your first post you say that you have to pay £6k in the next 14 days.

I will bow out, you've confused me.

shameless-about-money

thesaint wrote:

You say that there isn't a schedule of repayments, but in your first post you say that you have to pay £6k in the next 14 days.

I will bow out, you've confused me.

In this case that IS the schedule of payment!! Full payment within 14 days!

Now the defendant sends in the redetermination form with details of income/expenditure and details of other debts being paid out and offers £x per month in payment. The Court will then decide whether the amount offered is sufficient. The repayment schedule for monthly payments is then sent to the defendant.

JGWT8M

shameless-about-money wrote:

In this case that IS the schedule of payment!! Full payment within 14 days!

Now the defendant sends in the redetermination form with details of income/expenditure and details of other debts being paid out and offers £x per month in payment. The Court will then decide whether the amount offered is sufficient. The repayment schedule for monthly payments is then sent to the defendant.

Thanks shameless, that's exactly what the Clerk told me this morning.

Because the claimant had asked the Court to issue a summary judgement for the whole amount payable within 14 days, the Judge has little option but to issue it as neither of us (claimant and defendant) are there in person and the claimant refuses to accept installments, it's all done by letter, it is then down to me to go back to the Court and ask for a redetermination and then the Court will take into account my ability to pay properly, if the Claimant asks for a summary, then the Defendants ability to pay isn't taken into full account at this stage.

She also said that more and more redetermination hearings were being scheduled because the Clerks and Judges are more inclined to issue Summary Judgements first of all rather than working out repayment schedules, aparantly they are very busy.... so let that be a warning to anybody who thinks the Court will 100% backup a DMP previously agreed, they probably won't.

I know I didn't put the original question as well as I could have, and do appreciate the replies, but the answers given by some do make me wonder just exactly how many people on this board have been through the County Court procedure as a defendant rather than just guessing based on incorrect information posted elsewhere on the internet.

Couldn't get through to Business Debtline either, they've been engaged since 9am this morning and it took 5 attempts to get through to the Court, seems the County Court system is at breaking point in this area.... they have "three figured" numbers awaiting Bankrupcy hearings this week....

plumduff-2

Hmmm interesting one this...

The court forms were sent to you, and you filled in the N9 - admission forms and returned them to the creditor as you should.. it is then up to the cred whether or not to accept your offer... If they do not accept they should:

Inform the court and supply reasons for the refusal and a copy of the N9... The court will then enter judgement for the amount admitted AND determine the rate of payment...

So the court should have issued the ccj but also looked at repaymetn terms affordable to you based on your financial statement... And it looks like the court have not done this ... (why...? as you say - did the creditor provide all the details you submitted..?)

You now have the right to ask for a redertimination... however, the judges are not bound by determination of means guidelines..so can make whatever order they see fit... (unlike a variation order...)

One thing that is getting me though, and I dont have much experience of this... are you eligible to have the ccj set aside..?

This is where the judgement is cancelled, usually because procedure hasnt been followed...

One of the mandatory grounds for set aside is " the debtor served an admission on the creditor together with a request for time to pay before the judgement was entered..."

I dont know much about CPR's though... so it may be best to ask a CAB advice on whetehr they think a set aside is something you should be requesting... This may be the way to go prior to looking at a redermination...

JGWT8M

Yes that's basically how it happened, the claimant told the Court they refused my offer and ask them to issue a summary judgement and let the claimant decide how it should be enforced - this is in black and white in front of me in their rejection letter.

As BDL said to me last year, quiet how they expect to enforce a Judgement on someone with no assets and only debts is going to be interesting, they can't take my computer (needed for work) and they can't do an attachment of earnings so they can only BKY me which will get them nothing.

Someone else mentioned to me about having the CCJ set aside, but we don't think that applies in this case because of the time involved, this has been going on for nearly a year, so it is something that will be explored after the redertimination (why get it set aside now when I can !!!! them over in 2 months? only those who know the case will know why I've said that)

What makes me laugh is the Court expect me to pay £6k even though I'm £50k in debt, it could be that the Claimant only supplied the N9 form and not the additional bit of paper that detailed all the debts (wouldn't suprise me at all) but it's so laughable that the Court expect me to pay this when I can't even afford the rent next month that it either smacks of stupidity or the Claimant only supplied the N9 and not the bit of paper stapled to it.

If there was doubt, they could have ordered me to pay 6 monthly installments of £1000 each, at least then I could have applied for a variation order - actually thinking about it, that's probably why they didn't do that

If the redertimination goes against me then I'll apply to have the CCJ set aside pending a Bankrupcy petition, there is quiet simply no other option than that, I said the second they threatened my wife (6 months ago) that they would not get much from me and I'll stick to it.

I have written to the Court asking for redertimination and offering £51 a month instead (I read something about if you offer over £50 the claimant has to have a very good reason to reject it) and I've also written to the claimant basically saying here's a revised offer of £51pm, accept it or I'll go bankrupt and you'll get nothing, your choice buddy, not in so many words, but they'll understand what I'm saying.

plumduff-2

Hmmm, can you actually afford the £51...?

Is this what is set aside on your I&E from the DMP.... I hope you havent offered them more... well, if you have then you could always wait a couple of months and do a variation order on N245... Never heard of a VO request to reduce being declined.. whereas I have with a redetermination... Good luck

JGWT8M

Yes I can afford it, gave notice on a small unit I rented and it ends 31st Jan, so from 1st Feb I'm £55 a month better off. Would be better (my preference) to put it into the DMP (it's self administered and going very well) but they have already said they will persue it as far as it will go.

The ball is in their court, allow me the oppotunity to pay in installments, or get nothing at all. I know which one I would choose if I was the Claimant and not the defendant, but these "people" live in their own little world so it wouldn't suprise me if they turned the offer down in favour of getting nothing.

Cutting one's nose off to spite one's face is the saying that springs to mind.

Thanks.

JGWT8M

The Solicitor wrote to me today asking me to make an alternative "sensible" offer of installements (i.e. something that'll take less than 10 years!).

Up until now it's been pay up or else we won't accept installments, seems either their reading this thread, or they've finally woken up to the implications of what could happen in the next couple weeks.

The letter had a completely different nature to all that came before...

plumduff-2

If £51 per month is what you can afford, and your I&E backs this up then the offer you have made is reasonable...

Seeing as you have requested a redetermination, its none of the creditors business anyway... cheeky sods...! solicitors letter..? PAH...! Leave it to the judge to decide..

JGWT8M

With redetermination I take the risk of the Judge not accepting my argument and ordering me to pay up, so I've made them the offer and if they accept told them to inform the Court of this and get the Judgement amended and I'll withdraw my request for redetermination.