M&S - becoming complicated - help please!

whynotgoforit

Having met with success re a claim against M&S Personal Reserve (still awaiting payment.....), I decided to put in a PPI complaint re mis-selling re M&S Credit Card on the grounds of my self-employment and some health conditions. I have posted on this forum before but have some updates.

Here is the initial response from M&S, which I believe, seems to be pretty standard.

• As you completed the application in your own time, M&S Money were not present so no advice could have been given to you about the merits of this policy
• The sale of this insurance is deemed as "non-advised" as M&S Money did not employ appointed representatives in M&S stores at that time
• Policy documents were issued to you detailing the benefits, exclusions and cancellation rights. These should have been consulted to ensure the cover was suitable
• The full cost of the insurance was outlined on the application form which you could have queried before signing
• The questionnaire states that you were self employed from 1994 onwards however for the assessment of this claim we will be taking into account your employment as ........ in 1987 as stated on your application at the time
• By signing the overall credit agreement, you confirmed that you were happy with the contents of the application form and the accounts terms and conditions
• The policy was charged on a monthly basis for over 23 years and clearly detailed on your monthly statements. You could have contacted us at any time to query or cancel this policy
• We wrote to you during September 2003 to inform you that we were transferring your Chargecard account to a MasterCard account. This letter also included details about the transfer of the PPI policy

• We again wrote to you in January 2007 to make you aware of some changes to your PPI policy. You did not contact us at this time to question or cancel the policy
• At the time of the sale of this policy, M&S Financial Services acted as an unregulated intermediary as we were not a bank or a member of the GISC.

Due to the reasons stated above, I reject your complaint..... etc..

I posted on this forum about what to do next and was advised to phone the FOS and ask for advice. They advised me to pursue the underwriter., which I took to be Hamilton Insurance.

I also delved deeper into reasons for mis-selling and indeed found evidence that in my employment at the time, I received sickness 6 months' full pay, 2/3rds of salary thereafter, also death in service benefit and permanent health insurance.

I therefore sent in a separate claim to Hamilton complaining that there was not sufficient information made available to me to make an informed choice as to whether the PPI policy was suitable to my needs, and that I was not informed that I could have obtained PPI independently for a fraction of the cost.

Today I received a reply from Aviva.... who acquired Hamilton Insurance in November 2007.......I quote.....

Whilst I appreciate that M&S have not upheld your complaint, I would advise that your concerns are not for Aviva to address. ........at the start of your policy in 1987, I believe that the underwriter of your insurance was Allianz Cornhill. As such, I am sorry that I cannot assist you further and would suggest that you refer back to M&S in the first instance in respect of your concerns

So ... HELP! Do I have a case? What should I do next, if so?

Thank you for any informed advice!!

di3004

whynotgoforit wrote: »

Having met with success re a claim against M&S Personal Reserve (still awaiting payment.....), I decided to put in a PPI complaint re mis-selling re M&S Credit Card on the grounds of my self-employment and some health conditions. I have posted on this forum before but have some updates.

Here is the initial response from M&S, which I believe, seems to be pretty standard.

• As you completed the application in your own time, M&S Money were not present so no advice could have been given to you about the merits of this policy
• The sale of this insurance is deemed as "non-advised" as M&S Money did not employ appointed representatives in M&S stores at that time
• Policy documents were issued to you detailing the benefits, exclusions and cancellation rights. These should have been consulted to ensure the cover was suitable
• The full cost of the insurance was outlined on the application form which you could have queried before signing
• The questionnaire states that you were self employed from 1994 onwards however for the assessment of this claim we will be taking into account your employment as ........ in 1987 as stated on your application at the time
• By signing the overall credit agreement, you confirmed that you were happy with the contents of the application form and the accounts terms and conditions
• The policy was charged on a monthly basis for over 23 years and clearly detailed on your monthly statements. You could have contacted us at any time to query or cancel this policy
• We wrote to you during September 2003 to inform you that we were transferring your Chargecard account to a MasterCard account. This letter also included details about the transfer of the PPI policy

• We again wrote to you in January 2007 to make you aware of some changes to your PPI policy. You did not contact us at this time to question or cancel the policy
• At the time of the sale of this policy, M&S Financial Services acted as an unregulated intermediary as we were not a bank or a member of the GISC.

Due to the reasons stated above, I reject your complaint..... etc..

I posted on this forum about what to do next and was advised to phone the FOS and ask for advice. They advised me to pursue the underwriter., which I took to be Hamilton Insurance.

I also delved deeper into reasons for mis-selling and indeed found evidence that in my employment at the time, I received sickness 6 months' full pay, 2/3rds of salary thereafter, also death in service benefit and permanent health insurance.

I therefore sent in a separate claim to Hamilton complaining that there was not sufficient information made available to me to make an informed choice as to whether the PPI policy was suitable to my needs, and that I was not informed that I could have obtained PPI independently for a fraction of the cost.

Today I received a reply from Aviva.... who acquired Hamilton Insurance in November 2007.......I quote.....

Whilst I appreciate that M&S have not upheld your complaint, I would advise that your concerns are not for Aviva to address. ........at the start of your policy in 1987, I believe that the underwriter of your insurance was Allianz Cornhill. As such, I am sorry that I cannot assist you further and would suggest that you refer back to M&S in the first instance in respect of your concerns

So ... HELP! Do I have a case? What should I do next, if so?

Thank you for any informed advice!!

Hiya

Even though the FOS as you know are unable to take on complaints of the business were not regulated at the time of your loan, they too would suggest the underwriter avenue, who will highly likely reject as well.

However, the FOS will consider taking this complaint on, as the underwriter may have been protected by GISC, even if the seller wasn't.
The FOS will check any liabilities of underwriter to the seller of your policy and of their involvement.

Do give the FOS a ring office hours next week, who will probably suggest to complete a one of their complaint forms.

Good luck.

magpiecottage

I am afraid that you have said nothing that persuades me anybody other than you is at fault.

Nobody seems to have advised you but you have taken out cover without first checking to seeing what alternatives were available.

You argue that the complaint should be upheld because you became self-employed seven years after you took the policy out - but there was NO requirement for the provider to actively tell you how that affected eligibility unless you specifically asked, and I suspect you did not even tell them about the change.

And, of course, once you became self-employed, you lost the possibility of sick pay.

You say that originally you had sick pay from your employer and did not need the cover. So why on earth did you take it out?

I also have considerable sympathy with M&S in their view that you ought, at some time in more than two decades following, to have raised your concerns.

So, on that basis, I think M&S were acting fairly and reasonably in rejecting your complaint. You might have mispurchased but they didn't missell.

You cannot take M&S to FOS over it and if you go to court M&S will almost certainly use Section 14B of the Limitation Act 1980 to timebar you.

Stop stressing yourself and get on with your life.

dunstonh

As you completed the application in your own time, M&S Money were not present so no advice could have been given to you about the merits of this policy

This is key. When you complain, you are complaining about being sold incorrectly or given wrong information or it being set up wrong. It is clear that no-one sold this to you. You bought it without advice or sales process. So, you cannot complain it was mis-sold.

Credit card PPI is not single premium so is set up correctly.

The questionnaire states that you were self employed from 1994 onwards however for the assessment of this claim we will be taking into account your employment as ........ in 1987 as stated on your application at the time

That blows your self employment complaint out of the water as at point of sale you were employed.

The policy was charged on a monthly basis for over 23 years and clearly detailed on your monthly statements. You could have contacted us at any time to query or cancel this policy

This one is to hint that you are an opportunist try-it-on. 23 years of paying it and only now you decide to complain.

I also delved deeper into reasons for mis-selling and indeed found evidence that in my employment at the time, I received sickness 6 months' full pay, 2/3rds of salary thereafter, also death in service benefit and permanent health insurance.

That level of research was for you to do when you bought it. Not 23 years later.

So ... HELP! Do I have a case? What should I do next, if so?

Nothing you have said suggests you have a case. You have none of the reasons where most PPI complaints get upheld.

There is nothing wrong with having PPI. It is all about how it was sold and set up. Yours was set up correctly and wasnt sold to you.

whynotgoforit

Well that's told me in no uncertain manner, but I do thank you for the advice.

To be frank, I am not the sort of person who would just go all-out to seek compensation. It took me nearly a whole year's reading of this forum and the newspapers to think about applying for mis-selling in other areas, all of which have been successfully upheld. How many other people out there need a lot of pushing to go for a claim in the first instance?

I was quite young when I took out M&S credit card and just automatically took on PPI - surely there should have been some advice from them whether or not you actually need it??? I really was naive and it never entered my mind that the exceptionally good benefits I had negated any need for it.

OK, I take responsibility for not reading all the small print and will now get on with my life, as you say ........but at least I didn't just sit back and not examine the situation...................

magpiecottage

whynotgoforit wrote: »

To be frank, I am not the sort of person who would just go all-out to seek compensation. It took me nearly a whole year's reading of this forum and the newspapers to think about applying for mis-selling in other areas, all of which have been successfully upheld. How many other people out there need a lot of pushing to go for a claim in the first instance?

Conversely, how many people end up wasting everybody's time (and money) pursuing unwarranted claims (though it can be quite lucrative for those of us who have to sort it out!).

I was quite young when I took out M&S credit card and just automatically took on PPI - surely there should have been some advice from them whether or not you actually need it

No - the only rules are that the product must be presented in a way that is clear, fair and misleading.

There is no requirement to give advice but if a recommendation is made then it must be suitable for the customer.

I really was naive and it never entered my mind that the exceptionally good benefits I had negated any need for it.

OK, I take responsibility for not reading all the small print and will now get on with my life, as you say ........but at least I didn't just sit back and not examine the situation...................

At least you are likely to remember to think before you buy in future.