limited company & layoffs

phil_d1111

whats the situation with a number of employees working for a limited company for, say, five years. The company gets sold with the employees as part of the deal. The new owner turns around after a couple of years, sets up a new limited company. Says the old company is getting shut down or liqidated and all employees must reapply for their old jobs in the new company

McKneff

I think you have asked the question and answered it in the same post, unless I'm missing something here.

phil_d1111

McKneff wrote: »

I think you have asked the question and answered it in the same post, unless I'm missing something here.

i mean that the place of business remains the same and everything else - but the ploy is to get rid of the current employees and any redundancy that may be owing

is this legal - there must be some precedent?

McKneff

I dont think there's a precednet but if the old company was liquidated or shut down, they would have to pay redundancy etc.
I dont think they can dodge the law.

Hope that helps, other than that, have a google of the ACAS website.

keith1950

Hi, if everything was done properly using TUPE rules your original employment rights would continue with the new employer , did you sign any new contract when they originally took over, you would seem to be entitled to 7 years redundancy. ( depending on your age ).

If the current company is being shut down/liquidated then you are entitled to redundancy , if you then subsequently restart with the new company then your employment rights will start from scratch.

Have you any indications that they are trying to get round employment law?

p00hsticks

keith1950 wrote: »

Hi, if everything was done properly using TUPE rules your original employment rights would continue with the new employer

I don't believe TUPE applies when one company completely buys out another, but it is regarded as continuous employment - so, as you say, for the purposes of redundancy etc, the OP has seven years continous service across the old and current company.

SarEl

p00hsticks wrote: »

I don't believe TUPE applies when one company completely buys out another.

Yes it does. It only doesn't apply if the transfer of ownership is by share purchase, because then the compnay continues to exist so there is no TUPE, and no change of employer.

In terms of the OP's question whether the firm is being liquidated or closed down matters a lot, as does the process of the transfer of assets and/or business. Without more details it is impossible to say, because it may be a TUPE and the "redundancies" may be unfair dismissal; or it may be a redundancy situation. If in doubt I would suggest that the employees club together and get legal advice (unless someone has insurance or union cover) - it wouldn't cost much shared between them.

phil_d1111

the company was purchased / transferred by shares being bought

SarEl

phil_d1111 wrote: »

the company was purchased / transferred by shares being bought

In that case TUPE does not apply, but if TUPE does not apply there is also no continuous service unless it is the same company. The OP suggested that the current employer is closing / liquidating in its entirety and was being sold to another company. If this is a takeover by share acquisation then that is something very different. In share acquisition the company continues and so do your jobs. The acquiring company may then decide to close that company and you may be redundant. But then depending on the circumstances, the new employer may be breaching redundancy laws by selelcting only you for this action - that depends on determining an "establishment" in the eyes of the law. It may be the lack of detail, but something sounds "off" about this, and I still think legal advice might be worthwhile.

getmore4less

As I see it from the first post

OP Works for company A owned by X for 5 years

Z buys A off X (By buying the shares later post).

OP works for A owned by Z for a further 2 years.

Z liquidates A makes everyone redundant with 7 years service(if no money the social fund picks up the tab)

Z starts up B and offers some jobs

Fairly standard phoenix transfer.

Often done with friendly liquidators to eliminate debts and get round the TUPE obligation.

Apart from trying to get the situation under TUPE, the only real stratagy is for all the employees to take the redundancy and get jobs elewhere, but this only works if you are difficult to replace and can find jobs.