Tupe? Is there a max distance for relocation ?

tay14

After a meeting today at work ( which I couldn't attend due to been on sick) all 7 of us who are up for been made redundant have been told we will be getting no redundancy pay and that will we be all tupe to the new firm.we all work as mobile plant fitters across the country but are contracts state are place of work is northwich near Chester..the new firm is in Newcastle which must been around 3 to 4 hours away and non of us live near there, most are from the west Yorkshire or Manchester area.the guy from h/r didn't care wouldn't answer any questions and just kept saying ,you have no choice your getting tupe to Newcastle and you will all have to relocate there?or sort it out with your new employer.
They are having another meeting next week to start the consult ion period.

Is there a set limit on distance from your current job to your tupe job?
Cheers Paul.

mjm3346

Check your contract for a mobility clause

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/EmploymentContractsAndConditions/DG_10028541

tay14

I don't think there is I will have to check when I get back to work.

snowcat53

There is another thread on this subject. I am afraid your options are likely to be relocate or be made redundant.

PS I should have added though that you need to take legal advice- through your union or elesewhere - as TUPE does offer some protection and this could be unfair dismissal.

ceridwen

I know that, in the case of unemployed people, the DWP cannot expect people to travel more than a certain distance to take on a new job.

Not sure whether this distance is 1 hour travel each way or has been/is in the process of going up to a (totally outrageous) 90 minutes travel each way.

Its certainly quite definitely not more than 90 minutes I DO know.

I cannot see that any firm could expect one to travel an even greater distance-to-work than the DWP would expect from an unemployed person.

My guess is that the firm knows very well they are being WAY outrageous in saying this - and are actively expecting you all to decide to be redundant instead - but are saying this because they are hoping to get away with not paying due redundancy payouts.

Personally - I'd call their bluff and check up the current "travel to work time" the DWP expects from claimants. Get that in writing if possible (must be summat on the Internet you can print off re that). Then go to the firm and say "Look at this - proof positive of what is deemed reasonable". Then tell them that if they don't pay due redundancy money you will claim against them for this.

Certainly when employees are made redundant normally in a firm - the firm concerned can offer "alternative positions" but they must be ones that are "reasonable" - ie basically equivalent - meaning things like no lower pay, no worse conditions, etc.

Having such a hugely longer (in fact literally impossible) "travel to work time" would certainly count as a lot worse conditions and not a "reasonable alternative position".

I cant honestly think this is anything other than a try-on on their part - hoping to get away without paying your redundancy payments.

Personally - I would now be wondering about sending them a letter (Recorded Delivery and copy kept) stating words to the effect of "I note that my position at x is now redundant and that you are offering me an alternative position at y. As the "travel to work" time would be 3/4 hours each way for this position, then it is not a "reasonable alternative position". It would appear therefore that you are accordingly making me redundant. I await receipt of letter from yourselves confirming that I am now redundant and enclosing cheque for £x as due redundancy payment".

They probably will send you a waffly letter back stating that you arent redundant at all and there is this position available for you - but the main thing you will have achieved by sending them this letter is making it plain you know your legal rights (ie "Dont try and walk over me") and given yourself proof to give to the DWP as to why you are out of work (ie not your fault) and should receive due benefit immediately. Your letter and their reply to it will be "ammunition" for a resultant legal claim for that missing redundancy money.

tay14

cheers for the replays.i think the company just wants to wriggle out paying the 4 of us who would be due some money.we are all going to get together before the next meeting and speak at acas ect to see where we stand.

getmore4less

Does the new company know the situation?

I think you need to make sure that the new companies know they are going to be liable for any redundacy payments should they try to insist on relocations which do not cout as a suitable alternative.

Might be they are happy to make your bases home if you are normaly mobile.

Poosmate

Have you actually been told that the operations at your current work base are being ceased and that there is no alternative but to move to what will become your new "head office" in Newcastle?

I don't understand why a company in Newcastle takes over a company in Manchester then effectively closes it down and makes it's employees move to Newcastle.

It's like when HSBC took over The Midland Bank they didn't ask all the staff from the Midland banks to move to Hong Kong. Companies take over other companies (or contracts within companies) to branch out into new areas not to shut down/sell assets and drag the inhabitants screaming and kicking across the country (well not always anyway).

I think you may find that the company wants the base in Northwich to cover the west side of the country as the Newcastle base covers the east side.

Hope that's the case for you anyway.

Poo

tay14

Well here's the thing I carnet understand.The new company isnt taking over any thing just buying some plant.

I work for select Plant hire(part of Laing o'rouke construction) as a mobile plant fitter based at northwich but working around the country at different sites.the new company is called fast flow who are buying a small amount of plant machinery around 5% of what select own.
No workshops ,no contracts and no work sites are included in the sale just plant. Most of the plant fast flow are buying has been sat in are yard going rusty for two years. Select plant h/r are saying because a small amount of plant is out on hire, on site to 3 rd parties(which have no contracts of work just week to week hires) which they say that's way were are all getting tupe.
The only good thing is that talks have broken down with fast flow as they don't want or need any more fitters and if they wanted to employ us they want to do it on there terms and conditions not select plants.
Cheers Paul.

Poosmate

Ahh so it sounds like your company is trying to offload you before the poo hits the fan. I guess if they are selling 5% of their plant (assets) then it would follow that they would need 5% less workforce to fit/service those assets. Do you 7 represent 5% of the fitters or are there just 7 of you total?

Your company is facing a tough few months or more ahead, those week on week hires could grind to a halt at any time - headline on one of the newspapers this morning is "The Big Freeze Is Coming" (or something like that). I wonder how many of the smaller civil engineering companies will survive the winter?

I have been Tupe'd to a private company from a local government department recently, I feel that I am in a better or safer position to my counterparts who remained at the Council. My base is not too far from where I used to work and under Tupe conditions I am only required to work on the contract the private company took on which means I'm pretty static and they can't tell me to go work in the back of beyond and live out of hotel rooms as other members of their staff do working on this contract.

Anyway, good luck to you and the other Northwich 6.

Poo

tay14

we are just the 7 who worked the most on said plant at the time off the sale,but we all have worked on all other areas of the company just bad timing that we were chosen.its a good job ,well paid but i just want the redundancy money to cover me , as ive already sorted out a new job else where just after xmas.
hopefully they will sort it out ,but one off the bosses had lots of meetings with the firms lawyers last week so iam sure they will try to wriggle out of any thing the can to save a few quid.