DPS - Deposit issue on tenancy (inventory not signed)

F_T_Buyer

Hi All,

Just after some help again. I am writing on behalf of my parents who have moved out of their rental (England).

The full deposit is going through the DPS and Land Lord has supplied evidence, which has been supplied to us and now we have to supply evidence back.

The issue is no inventory was taken when moving in, but the letting agent has fabricated an inventory which my parents have never seen nor signed, they have also written a check out inventory which we have never seen nor signed.

They have however supplied an invoice from of a professional clean prior to my parents moving in, then stated in the inventory the carpets are dirty, with some needing a replacement, the problem is the invoice of a professional clean portrays the carpets to be 100% like new - which they are not (7years old).


My question is, is the fact that my parents have not signed an inventory enough evidence? It is signed by the letting agent, but not by my parents.


The letting agent is useless, and does not and never did respond to any letters from my parents requesting an inventory - we clearly don't have those letters, only a digital copy on the PC. You will see from a previous thread how bad the letting agent is.

I am a little concerned that the landlord has supplied lots of information, but we can't really supply anything apart from say we never agreed to that inventory.

Thanks for your help.

BitterAndTwisted

Your parents should get onto the DPS website and claim the whole of their deposit back immediately. Then, if the landlord insists on making any deductions from their deposit they should dispute every penny of them. The onus of proof lies with the landlord to supply documentary evidence for their claim. Your parents should say that they do not accept the landlord's inventory as they never saw it and most certainly did not sign it as it was never supplied to them at the start of their tenancy. The lack of your parents' signatures on the check-out inventory is also very compelling.

It's unfortunate that your parents did not keep a copy of their letters asking for sight of the check-in inventory, but the draft could suffice, especially if it was emailed to the agent.

F_T_Buyer

Hi, yes it's already with the DPS and we are questioning every single penny. My parents don't really email (so never emailed the LA), but the letter is [somewhere] on their PC but of course this is a draft. They could print this again, but they can't really sign it and date it back in 2010. Ideally they should of photocopied it before sending, but they don't have a copier (surprise surprise).

I hope they win by default, but have written a justification on every point now. Some things are seriously stupid, but the main issue is the carpet.

The worse part about the tenancy was the debt collectors, constantly harassing my dad (chasing the landlord's debt). He could prove he wasn't the landlord so it all got sorted, but when you answer the door to someone and they jam their foot in the door - then find they are preparing to clamp your car - well how would that make you feel?!? They were approx five different debt collectors chasing separate debts. However, there is no point in mentioning this to the DPS - it is really irrelevant.

F_T_Buyer

Oh, and the landlord has produced (around 30) photos of how crap his house is - every mark of the carpet and mould in the bathroom. But it was like that when they moved in.

BitterAndTwisted

Even if the carpets can be proven to have been 100% like new on this spurious inventory, they were not new. Can it be proven that they were 7 years old? In which case an argument could be made that a seven year old carpet in a rental property had outlived its useful life and the replacement value to the landlord would be zero.

Your parents just need to deny that they ever saw either the check-in or check-out inventories. Neither has their dated signature on it, so they are obviously works of fiction.

RAS

F_T_Buyer wrote: »

Hi, yes it's already with the DPS and we are questioning every single penny. My parents don't really email (so never emailed the LA), but the letter is [somewhere] on their PC but of course this is a draft. They could print this again, but they can't really sign it and date it back in 2010. Ideally they should of photocopied it before sending, but they don't have a copier (surprise surprise).

I hope they win by default, but have written a justification on every point now. Some things are seriously stupid, but the main issue is the carpet.

The worse part about the tenancy was the debt collectors, constantly harassing my dad (chasing the landlord's debt). He could prove he wasn't the landlord so it all got sorted, but when you answer the door to someone and they jam their foot in the door - then find they are preparing to clamp your car - well how would that make you feel?!? They were approx five different debt collectors chasing separate debts. However, there is no point in mentioning this to the DPS - it is really irrelevant.

In which case once you have sorted this toad out, download a copy of the deeds from the Land Registry and check out who has provided the mortgage.

Then ring the mortgage provider and the HMRC and ask both if they know he is renting out his property.

I suspect not, if he is still using the address on credit records.

F_T_Buyer

Lol. We could do that.

The house was built in 2004, so I'm almost certain the carpets were the original from when it was built. I doubt the landlord could provide an invoice because he bought the house in 2007.

F_T_Buyer

Just an update.

It's now gone through the DPS and they have mainly found in my parents favour. They found in our case on the carpets, but the photos showed cleaning on exit was not up to par - so they've deduced 3hours professional cleaner. In total the deduction was 4%.


It has confirmed a few things to me, and [STRIKE]all [/STRIKE] most the evidence given (well, fabricated) by the landlord was discounted because my parents never signed any of it.

However, the landlord did have photos of before and after my parents tenancy. This is what formed the basis of the deduction. However I'm sure the photos were from years ago, as they are things that have been changed - and the photos were not dated. The landlord had signed a declaration saying the photos were true, which is why they were taken into account.


As for the cleaning, it was mainly the sinks/toilets and lime scale - you know where the tap/toilet constantly leaks. This couldn't be cleaned anyway!

~~~~~~

Just to sum up, if I were to ever rent a place I would take photos with the date+time on the photo when you move in - before your furniture is moved in.

Inventories are good, but they always seem to be vague when you move in and super detailed when you move out! I would also write an addition to any inventory, detailing every single bit of dirt. Sign and date this, and send a copy to the LA.

Of course, all MSE'ers know this already!!! :T

MummyMummy_2

thank you for posting an update!

i found the update really helpful as we are in the same position, i actually posted about it on here a couple of days ago. it's so frustrating when you clean a property and it's spotless and the letting agent turns around and says the property is dirty. the absolute cheek! we didn't take photos on leaving (though i had a real nagging feeling i should of but i just assumed because the house was clean that i wouldn't need to!) but i def agree with you... always always make sure you've taken your own photos. just like your parents no move in/move out inventory has been signed and no photos have been shown/signed as far as i am aware.

glad all worked out for them in the end!

F_T_Buyer

Just reading through, you just need to clearly tell MyDespoits (if that is who you are using) that you never signed the moving in inventory, and disagree with the content.

For my situation the letters made my parents look like total scum, which they were quite hurt about - In hindsight they took the house on because they were sort of desperate and rushed into it (I don't live with them so couldn't help too much).

In the end it really does all come down to evidence, and the only reason they got some money is because of the photos. But the DPS honoured 3hours professional cleaning but then said the photos showed it being dirty when they moved in, hence only allowed 2/3rds of that amount.

I would say the process took a very long time, tenancy ended at the end of July (over 4months). But this is because every bit of evidence that was sent in by the landlord was followed up with "please clarify letters", so they had over two months to submit evidence despite being only allowed 28days.

In your case take lots of photos when you move out. Did you take any when you moved in?