Problems with a CCJ escalation from missing train fare.

Rmillington

Hi there,

I'm doing some research on behalf of a friend who is not quite in dire straits but certainly is in a bit of trouble. Since she's a uni student studying for a master's and she's already had to re-take a year due to stress and depression, I want her to be able to get herself sorted as stress-free as possible.

The problem? A CCJ issued to her by Marston Group High Court Enforcement. They are demanding that she pay them a full amount of £752.30 or they will send bailiffs to collect goods to that amount.

She has called them several times over the past few weeks, offering the same as her other creditors: £10 a month until she can get straight enough to give them more. They have adamantly refused this offer, giving her the ultimatum "All or nothing." Her account is now on hold until the 17th, by which point something must be done.

The original debt was an un-paid train fare, which she repeatedly chased for information on and received no correspondence back. I believe the standard fare, which is charged when someone doesn't pay the proper fare for their travel, is about £20 or so, which is what she would have originally had to pay.

I want to know if she HAS to pay this Marston company in full as they demand, or if they have to accept her offer of £10/month. I've also been told that she may not even have to pay the £700 and may get away with simply paying the original debt of the train fare.

Can someone confirm or offer advice on this? I would be extremely grateful for any and all help offered. :-)


This is a duplicate thread I posted in debt free wannabe but thought it might be better here! Many thanks.

Humphrey10

Rmillington wrote: »

I believe the standard fare, which is charged when someone doesn't pay the proper fare for their travel, is about £20 or so, which is what she would have originally had to pay.

No - in a penalty fare area, it's twice the full single fare or £20, whichever is greater. So it can be considerably more than £20.

She must have given the ticket inspectors/revenue collectors her name and address at the time, they have no other way of tracing her, so I can't really see why she needs to chase them for details - she must be able to remember being stopped.

Jeff_Bridges_hair

The £20 you wuote is only valid on services that operate the penalty fare scheme and is not a steadfast £20 fare - it can be twice the single fare if greater then £20.

now if they got a PF they wouldve recieved a bit of paper informing her of this. If not and the created a TIR(i think they called that) then it would generally be a prosecution they would be taking her too in court.

At this point do not say anything else but go here http://www.railforums.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=105 they have experts who work in the rail industry and some who deal with prosecutions who will be able to give you the best advice.

I would suggest that your friend does it herself so she can give full information to them - probably best in a PM once thread is made and either Yorkie or Dave Newcastle respond. They will give you the best help they can for her.

peter_the_piper

Maybe a post also on ConsumerActionGroup (CAG) might get some info as well as on here.

spiro

A CCJ (County Court Judgement) is issued by a court and therefore if they had her address she should have received papers to attend court. If they have sent her a copy of the CCJ, contact the court and get the details of when it was issued and why she was not advised she was being taken to court.

daveyjp

If it has been to Court she needs to apply to Court to have the judgment set aside and start the process again. You can't ignore Court papers and then decide to negotiate on the payment terms, far better to do it in front of a Judge.

Crabman

Make sure it's a genuine CCJ by calling the Court directly (find the details here), if I've learnt anything from the Parking Fines Board it would be that some cowboys wouldn't be averse to printing a fake CCJ to scare people into paying.

Jeff_Bridges_hair

Crabman wrote: »

Make sure it's a genuine CCJ by calling the Court directly (find the details here), if I've learnt anything from the Parking Fines Board it would be that some cowboys wouldn't be averse to printing a fake CCJ to scare people into paying.

TOCs are very very far from being cowboys. They are highly regulated and also have their own by-laws to which you should abide by.

PPCs do not and its quite crass of you to think they are in anyway similar.

Crabman

Jeff_Bridges_hair wrote: »

TOCs are very very far from being cowboys. They are highly regulated and also have their own by-laws to which you should abide by.

It's always prudent to carry out legitimacy checks, as I said, it is not unheard for cowboys in the private parking industry to forge court documents. Better safe than sorry.

This article (authoried by a barrister) is interesting:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2007/jun/30/consumernews.transportintheuk

If the guard issues a penalty notice anyway, there is 21 days to appeal to the company. However even if there is no appeal, or the appeal is not allowed, the company is not automatically entitled to its money. It first has to sue in the county court. Judges hearing such claims would not give judgment for the penalty sum unless the company could justify it.


There has been no reported case of a train company suing in this way. The last thing the rail industry would want is a pronouncement by a judge on its levying of penalty fares.

Does anyone know whether there has been a single case of a train company suing for their money? How do they get their money if at the time of the article (June 2007) there was no report of a single case?

Jeff_Bridges_hair

Please stop making comparisons with private parking companies they are far far different.

And so you know - the rail companies do not 'Sue' people who get caught fare evading. In fact what they do do is take them to court and prosecute under the laws that they have been given either under the Regulation of Railway act or the Bylaws.

And they have done many of these over the years. Thats why you dont find them suing people because they dont - they prosecute.

As i said OP(who hasnt returned) dont go by any other information on here as you can see some people seem to think the info they know about PPCs also apply to the regulated railway industry so they give you wrong information.

Go to the Rail forums for proper sound advice.