Replace Old Baxi Bermuda C/H Boiler

ed110220

gas4you wrote: »

Also you need to add in the cost of rebuilding the front of your fireplace, as the electric fire is not big enough to cover the opening needed to fit the BBU unit. Then find somewhere for the 10mm condensate pipe to run without making your room look a mess

All my internal walls are fibreboard on timber studwork, which I want to replace with plasterboard so running the condensate pipe shouldn't be a problem, it can go in the wall. The fire surround is pretty ugly too and needs replacing anyway.

From the Youtube video on installing this boiler, it looks as though the control unit is separate from the electric fire.

rustyboy21

ed110220 wrote: »

All my internal walls are fibreboard on timber studwork, which I want to replace with plasterboard so running the condensate pipe shouldn't be a problem, it can go in the wall. The fire surround is pretty ugly too and needs replacing anyway.

From the Youtube video on installing this boiler, it looks as though the control unit is separate from the electric fire.

The controls for the boiler sit on the metal frame around the fire front, so if you didn't have the fire the controls would have to go somewhere.

Also take into account, you are dealing with Baxi here. Any deviation from the norm ( i.e not having the firefront in situ with the boiler) would be classed as not fitted to spec and they would walk away and invalidate warranty.

Believe me they are that jobsworthy !

The fire is really nice though, looks like a real fire when it is switched on. And is cheap to run as is LED lit.

The flue liner is plastic, twin walled, specific to the boiler, one fits inside the other and is then held together with a fixing collar at bottom and a ventilated specific gas cowl on roof. ( Ooops forgot to add this in to pricing ) .

It is a lovely bit of kit and the response from users is very good. It is more expensive than a combi, as there is nothing on the market to compete with it comparibly. It is just that fitters don't like the mess of installing something from the norm, even though it can be done in a day, with very little disruption to the rest of the house ( pipework rerouting, removal of cylinder , water tanks etc) and with minimal decorating afterwards.

It is all up to whether you have an outside wall where you can site a combi, Terraced houses are more restrictive as only have front/back walls, no side walls , and be able to hide the pipework from view, from the pipe rerouting. Personal choice.

ed110220

It's a BISF house, not sure if you're familiar with them but they are all the same in their layout. It is a double-storey semi-detached house with a single-storey extension/annex (not strictly an extension I guess as it was built at the same time as the house, originally it housed a coal store).

Due to the layout, the only external walls it could really go on are in the kitchen, hall or bathroom. The bathroom is too small and I'm loath to sacrifice wall space in the kitchen (I'd have to remove at least one cabinet). The hallway would look a bit of a bodge with a boiler in it I think. Perhaps it could go in the extension, but the extension is not really part of the house...

So this is why I was thinking a new back boiler might be a neater solution.

But first I'd like to find out exactly how much it would save to have a new condensing boiler. All the recommendations I see for and against are pretty vague or just people's gut feelings and opinions, rather than hard facts to do some calculations on.

rustyboy21

ed110220 wrote: »

It's a BISF house, not sure if you're familiar with them but they are all the same in their layout. It is a double-storey semi-detached house with a single-storey extension/annex (not strictly an extension I guess as it was built at the same time as the house, originally it housed a coal store).

Due to the layout, the only external walls it could really go on are in the kitchen, hall or bathroom. The bathroom is too small and I'm loath to sacrifice wall space in the kitchen (I'd have to remove at least one cabinet). The hallway would look a bit of a bodge with a boiler in it I think. Perhaps it could go in the extension, but the extension is not really part of the house...

So this is why I was thinking a new back boiler might be a neater solution.

But first I'd like to find out exactly how much it would save to have a new condensing boiler. All the recommendations I see for and against are pretty vague or just people's gut feelings and opinions, rather than hard facts to do some calculations on.

According to the energy savings trust, you will be saving approx £300 a year for a band A boiler, which the CBBU is in, They quote it at 90.2% efficient.

The problem is that everyone works things out differently.

The new CBBU runs on max 17.1kw kw input
Old BBU runs on max 21.07 kw input

on max heat output

new 15.7kw
old 16.49 kw

So in effect the new one, uses less gas, but creates a little less output, but that is very little difference. You will have to work out your costings from your tarrif.

Bit of a hard choice really, as I have said it is more down to personal preference. With a combi, you then get into the realms of what an installer is prepared to fit. Some will say worcester , some baxi/potterton/main ( all the same underneath casing, but 3 different prices, starting with highest price first ) Valiant, Glowrm etc. Each engineer will have their favourite, as a lot of manufacturers have incentives for the installer to fit a certain brand. I know of an engineer who has had a trip to Australia, off fitting a certain brand of boiler, it's like reward points for the installer. And then take into account, all engineers think they are God's gift and the best thing since sliced bread. They will slag off another fitter, or brand and gear you onto what they want you to have.


If you can hold out on replacing the boiler for a while, I would do it and save up to buy what you feel you want, not what the engineer says you should have.

BTW Don't try and take the fire off and run the boiler by itself, It cannot be done. The fire and the boiler clip in together, to create the flue for the fumes. Anyone who says you can, should be arrested for criminal negligence, it will kill you
.

Have a look at replacing the firesurround and marble instead, it can make the fire look better, if the rest of the fireplace is more to your liking. Just take into account you will need an 18'' x 22'' opening in marble back panel and an 18'' depth hearth.

Don't rush into anything, see how things go.

ed110220

Thanks again rusty. My thinking was that if I'm going to replace it, I'll do it in the summer or autumn as by then we'll have a good idea of our gas consumption and therefore what we'll save and whether it's worthwhile, also don't want to be without a boiler in winter!

I'm thinking about it now though because it will determine other refurbishment plans we have, whether we get a new back boiler or a combi.

I've used the SEDBUK calculator http://www.sedbuk.com/ which gives an estimated annual gas usage of £826 using our present 65% efficient Baxi Bermuda SL3 boiler versus £596 using a 90% efficient condensing boiler, given a gas price of 3.751p/kWh. Does that sound reasonable?

rustyboy21

Hi Ed

Sounds reasonable to me, although I only sell the proucts and mainly fires and surrounds. I did sell lots of the SL3's when they were made, as in my area a lot of people had ex council houses which they bought and BBU's were installed.

Maybe some of the regular Heating installers can give you correct answer, but by the looks of it, you have worked it out ok. When you are told to keep it going until it dies, don't disregard this, the BBU was one of the best and most reliable boilers ever made. It only stopped being produced when legislation came in for efficiency. They cost approx £2.5k when they were new, so the new one isn't really that much more expensive, taking into account how long ago they were made. Oldest one I know of is 24 years old and still going strong. You won't get that from a combi

Pity Baxi stopped making the firefronts for these boilers, as I get asked every day for replacements and people wont believe me when I say they haven't been made for 2 years and then start arguing that they can put a normal fire in front of it. If only you could ! The SL3 was one of the nicer ones out the range, SP3 was nicest, LFE5 looked like a coffin !

ed110220

Obviously that calculation was based on an average 3-bedroom semi-detached house rather than our own gas usage. I'm a little concerned as BISF houses are said to be poorly insulated, but I'm taking that with a pinch of salt as most of the opinions I've encountered so far about them have turned out to be exaggerated or wrong. People just seem to think they are bad houses, while similar flaws in say a Victorian house such as poorly insulated solid walls are forgiven because people start from the assumption that the house is good. It is an ex-council house too.

If I replace the thing I'll remember that - maybe I could sell it on Ebay!