please for advise on my mothers lasting power of attorney

meadowlane104

hi..first post on here,i am going mad with worry,i hope to find someone either in same position and/or knows what i should do because i am at a loss of it all...my father died last november,he looked after my mum who is riddled with arthritus ,she is fully aware and all together in her mind,its just she cant do for herself,i was recomended to get a lpa to see to things in future on her behalf,what i dont understand is the record/account side of it..i signed to apply in december..it was registared and recieved in the march this year,so is it that i am responsible from the dec or the march?also i am at mo dealing as my fathers representative with my fathers estate and doing a dwp letter as well ,im feeling i ve entered a world i know nothing a,howbout,but as for the lpa,what accounts am i to keep,i know about bills etc,but i dont understand like for instance,my mam wants for example £40 for something and then i dont know what she has done with it or her hair dresser that has never given a reciept,i cant seem to keep up,also i have paid for her house insurance and a few other things at last christmas time ,how do i get my money back?my mam says just draw it out her pension,but im afraid to do that so im still out of pocket at mo,i find the whole thing so confusing,any advise will be so appriciated..thank you

alanq

I have no experience having just applied to register an LPA for my mother.

As I understand it, if the donor has mental capacity then they can run their own affairs in some matters and the attorney can deal with others on their behalf. It is my understanding that the attorney only has to account for their own actions not those of the donor.

"Duty to keep accounts
7.67 Property and affairs attorneys must keep accounts of transactions carried out on the donor’s behalf. Sometimes the Court of Protection will ask to see accounts. If the attorney is not a financial expert and the donor’s affairs are relatively straightforward, a record of the donor’s income and expenditure (for example, through bank statements) may be enough. The more complicated the donor’s affairs, the more detailed the accounts may need to be."
http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/pls/portallive/docs/1/51771696.PDF

I don't see why their should be a problem with reclaiming money spent on your mother's insurance provided you have evidence that you paid it out of your funds.

dzug1

You are responsible for accounting for it from the day it was registered - so March this year. To be more precise it would be the day you started using it - it isn't instantaneous

You can take money to cover your expenditure on her behalf whenever it was incurred - even if it was before the LPA was applied for.

If you give her £40 it becomes her responsibility - you are not required to monitor what she does with it, just record the fact you have given her cash.

Biggles

The first thing you have to do, as your mother still has full mental capacity, is to sort out with her who does what.

It may be that she is happy to carry on being responsible for her affairs as before, but needs you to carry out a few things like banking transactions, paying bills etc for her. In those circumstances, the only records you would need to keep would be what bills you had paid and (if they were paid out of your own money) when you were reimbursed by her.

If, on the other hand, she prefers you to handle all her financial affairs, you would just need to keep a record of things like pension coming in and bills going out. As dzug1 says, if you give her 'pocket money' for day-to-day expenses, just record what you gave her, there's no need to itemise what she spent it on.

The best thing, if she uses a bank cheque account, would be to register the LPA with the bank, then you will be able to sign her cheques and will not need to pay anything out of your own money. It's much better if they are kept separate.

Don't get too hung up on the word 'responsible'. While your mother retains mental capacity, she is responsible for her own affairs except in as much as she chooses to ask you to become responsible for them, which is why you two need to agree this between you.

From the DirectGov website, you will see that she is presently able to choose to give you certain duties or powers, or not:-

Property and financial affairs Lasting Power of Attorney

A property and financial affairs Lasting Power of Attorney lets you choose one or more people to make property and financial affairs decisions for you.
Once your Lasting Power of Attorney has been registered, your attorney(s) can make decisions for you even when you still have capacity.

For example, it may be easier for you to give your attorney the power to carry out tasks such as paying your bills. This could be because:

• you find it difficult to walk or travel certain distances
• you find it difficult to talk on the telephone
• you are out of the country for long periods of time

Your attorney(s) can make decisions for you about any or all of your property and financial matters. These decisions can include:

• paying your bills
• collecting your benefits
• selling your house

John_Pierpoint

I had an enduring power of attorney/power of attorney for my mother, but only once needed to use it (when Cheltenham & Gloucester" queried her now spider like signature). It is a real pain complying with the procedures of various companies.

She gave me "authorised signatory" on her current account, which was sufficient for most transactions. #

Needless to say I kept accurate accounts, as a person in a position of trust must be seen to be whiter than white, to avoid "misunderstandings".
Some organisations that would not give receipts were a pain in the neck.

meadowlane104

thank you to all for your advise.....i have only presented the lpa once so far and that was at soliciters to sign for probate to change my fathers name on house to my mothers and signed on her behalf,also..same thing for land of registry..both involving two payments to soliciters, i dont have a bank card or cheque book on my name orhavent to date signed any cheques,my mother has done her own,ive paid in water,gas ,telephone,and carers bill in banks and post office and i fetch the shopping,all this is done in cash as my mother has a post office account for her pension ,is this ok do you think,it bothers me awfully,thank you

dzug1

That sounds OK - you should though consider becoming an authorised user of her Post Office account (the purple card thingey, right?). That way you get your own card and can officially draw her pension rather than using her card and breaking the T&C. Or is she still drawing it herself?

Biggles

meadowlane104 wrote: »

thank you to all for your advise.....i have only presented the lpa once so far and that was at soliciters to sign for probate to change my fathers name on house to my mothers and signed on her behalf,also..same thing for land of registry..both involving two payments to soliciters, i dont have a bank card or cheque book on my name orhavent to date signed any cheques,my mother has done her own,ive paid in water,gas ,telephone,and carers bill in banks and post office and i fetch the shopping,all this is done in cash as my mother has a post office account for her pension ,is this ok do you think,it bothers me awfully,thank you

Yes, that sounds fine. Where you have paid cash, get a cheque from your mother (so much more transparent than cash) as reimbursement and keep notes of the amounts. You shouldn't be out of pocket.

Wherever possible, as your mother is able to 'do' cheques, pay all her bills that way, rather than cash; then you have no records to keep, as she is paying out of her own funds.

The only thing you'll be left paying for in cash is shopping. But, as long as she gives you her shopping list and a tenner (or whatever) and you give her the change, I can't see any need fo record-keeping there either - it's what children have always done for their parents.


And definitely regularise the withdrawing of cash, as dzug1 suggests. You need to keep everything above board.

meadowlane104

thanks for replys..dzug1....its my mothers card yes..she uses and has sent me also but not alot,but i think i should have my own like you say. ill phone the post office and find out,as i havent given my lpa to the post,or banks or anywhere actually up to this stage, does my record keeping start from when i give the lpa details to the post office/bank etc or from the date it was recieved in march fully registared ? my mother was taken in hospital on weekend with a stroke, now things may alter,i dont know yet..shes not too bad,,knows everything,,hands and legs have been affected,,early days yet to know how bad she now is to before,thats why im trying to make sense of this to clear my head,cos its so confusing (for me) i have so much to do with 3 young children..all my own bills as you do..looking after my mother 7 days a week,which is so hard juggling around things all the time,the thought of having to log every bill,shopping reciept,cash withdrawrel from post office,on top...and what if i forget or lose the tickets...omg..ive got a ..cant cope feeling coming on..sorry...thank you

Biggles

Meadow, sorry to hear about the stroke. As you say, things might now change - but take things a step at a time.

For the moment, carry on as before but do talk to the PO about your LPA, as you will probably need to access the account yourself in future. And don't get too worried about 'logging every bill'. While she has mental capacity and is happy to tell you what needs doing, you are just her agent and only need to make sure things are recorded the way she always did, by you if she is unable to. The only things you need to make a note of yourself, like I said above, are when you pay something with your own money and get reimbursed.

If it turns out she is physically no longer able to sign cheques, then you will need to talk to the bank with your LPA too, so you can sign them for her. It might be an idea to start this after you have seen the PO, just so it's all set up ready.

If she becomes less mentally able to remain 'responsible' for herself and, instead of her asking you to do something for her, you have to make the decisions and run her accounts, then you will need to keep more in the way of records. That's when your 'record-keeping' will really start. But it's not too hard (really) and you can come back and ask for help then if that eventuality happens. Hopefully it won't.

dzug1

You don't need to use the LPA for the Post Office account - I suspect it will complicate things horribly if you do.

You just get a form from the PO, fill it in, both of you sign it and take it to the PO with ID for yourself (if you havent got any they have a procedure). I think it's called authorised agent. You'll get a letter when the card is ready to pick up.