Landlord moved new tenants in during our notice period and is refusing to communicate

mouche

RAS wrote: »

You need to write today to the UK address, not e-mail, and make it explicit that you have tried to return the keys and referring to previous telephone conversations and e-mails.

E-mail has limited value in the law courts.

Advise that if you hear no more, you will return the keys to the house.#

Two copies first class from different post offices with certificates of posting.

Thank you, we will do this - but who do we return the keys to if we hear nothing further from landlord or brother? How will we have proof that we have indeed returned the keys?

mouche

anselld wrote: »

I fear you may be escallating things too quickly and assuming the worst. In 24 hours you seem to have gone from reasonably happy to threatening legal action and entry with the police.

I can't see any threat of unreasonable deductions from deposit etc by LL or brother. It was reasonable to refund rent for the period after keys were returned and reasonable for LL to ask permission for new Ts to occupy early.

OK, non-protection of deposit is bad. However, you seem to agree that LL has otherwise been reasonable. Why not just ask brother to meet at the house for return of keys, collection of mail and to discuss return of deposit and any remaining rent?

You may well be right - what sent us into panic mode was the fact that neither landlord or brother are responding to email or text ever since we sent the email (perfectly polite) to landlord pointing out our unhappiness with his brother's behaviour and the fact that our deposit is unprotected.

You say it was reasonable to refund rent for the period after keys were returned - considering that we are ending the tenancy early at their request, isn't it reasonable to expect rent refunded for the period that we are unable to access the house due to new tenants being in there? Also, are we being unreasonable in expecting the keys to be collected either with 24 hours notice to us and at our convenience? I'm not trying to be snarky - I am genuinely confused about whether we are being unreasonable in expecting this. We had no problem paying rent till the end of the notice period and had not asked for it to be refunded at any point prior to the new tenants moving in.

anselld

mouche wrote: »

You may well be right - what sent us into panic mode was the fact that neither landlord or brother are responding to email or text ever since we sent the email (perfectly polite) to landlord pointing out our unhappiness with his brother's behaviour and the fact that our deposit is unprotected.

You say it was reasonable to refund rent for the period after keys were returned - considering that we are ending the tenancy early at their request, isn't it reasonable to expect rent refunded for the period that we are unable to access the house due to new tenants being in there? Also, are we being unreasonable in expecting the keys to be collected either with 24 hours notice to us and at our convenience? I'm not trying to be snarky - I am genuinely confused about whether we are being unreasonable in expecting this. We had no problem paying rent till the end of the notice period and had not asked for it to be refunded at any point prior to the new tenants moving in.

Agree that is mostly reasonable. My concern is specifically with
"sue him for 3 times the deposit amount" and "if he hasn’t heard from him by EOD, he will be entering the house accompanied by police" all with 24 hours and without any provocation from the LL other than request of keys to be returned (admittedly at short notice).

mouche

Ah I see your point anselld - the suing for 3 times amount was couched in very reasonable terms, aka, we don't want to do this so please return our deposit.

The entering with police was probably a bit previous and we won't actually be doing that. However, in the letter I will send, I will specify a time at which we wish to meet him at the house and inform him that if no one is present, we will let ourselves in so as to collect our post. Is that reasonable?

anselld

mouche wrote: »

Ah I see your point anselld - the suing for 3 times amount was couched in very reasonable terms, aka, we don't want to do this so please return our deposit.

The entering with police was probably a bit previous and we won't actually be doing that. However, in the letter I will send, I will specify a time at which we wish to meet him at the house and inform him that if no one is present, we will let ourselves in so as to collect our post. Is that reasonable?

Probably reasonable, though taken with other emails previous may still risk coming across provocative.

Why not go round, knock on door. Explain to new Ts that you have been asked to return keys but had some trouble contacting LL. Would they mind taking keys and giving you a receipt as confirmation? Would they mind seeing if there is any mail?

I appreciate it is very difficult to know. There *may* be a conspiracy but it might just be poor communication.

mouche

Sorry about the mutltiude of posts but is this letter ok (to be sent tomorrow by recorded delivery):

Dear Landlord,

I have tried to contact you and your brother several times by email and by phone over the past few days but I have received no response from either of you.
I have enclosed a copy of the email sent to you on XYZ date, outlining our concerns about the way this tenancy has been ended by you and your representatives.
Since I am unable to contact you, this letter is to inform you that I will be at <rental address> at <time>, <date> to return the keys to your or your representative. If neither you nor your representative is present, we will hand over the keys to whoever is at the property and request a receipt from them. If no one is at the property, we will return the keys to, as the estate agent from whom we initially took the lease.
I hope you and your representative will be present on the date as I would like to discuss the return of our deposit and the excess rent paid. I hope to resolve this amicably as I am sure neither of us wants to get involved in court cases.
Please note that if no one is present at the property, we will let ourselves in so as to collect our post. Therefore, please ensure that someone is present.

Is this ok? Also, what do we do if no one is at the property when we go and the estate agents refuse to accept the keys (as the landlord no longer has a contract with them).

lizzywig

mouche wrote: »

4. One year after we moved in, the landlord sent us a new contract beginning on the 1st of the month. He said to ignore calls from the estate agents as he no longer wanted to deal with them. We refused to sign the contract, saying that since we were now on a rolling contract, we preferred to stay on it as we could then give a month’s notice instead of committing to a fixed term. He agreed to this and we still have the unsigned contract in our possession.

Hmmmmm this is interesting to me. I wonder WHY he didn't want you to contact the Estate Agents. As some people have said perhaps it's poor communication but if it's not then I wonder if something happened way back when which made LL not want anything to do with the agency. I wonder if LL got your deposit back from them, thinking out loud here and I didn't think this was possible. I thought that LL could only release the deposit to you from a scheme. However it seems odd that you have a recipet but no scheme. I would try the scheme again stating that you have a receipt.

mouche

thanks lizzy....we don't actually have a receipt from a scheme - the receipt is from the estate agency listing the deposit among other fees. The name of the scheme is preprinted on the first contract but they haven't heard of us.

To all - there has been no communication from the landlord yet and we are now afraid that there will be no one there on the day we go to return the keys and/ or they won't give us a receipt for them. If we are physically unable to return the keys, what if they accuse us of trying to access the house after our notice period is over. We wouldn't do that either now or later but suppose they try to play dirty? Would the police agree to hold the keys for us? Please help!

anselld

Return the keys by post - recorded delivery.

G51shopaholic

I worked in letting for over 7yrs but in Scotland.

I'm assuming you paid your deposit to the Estate Agent at the start of the tenancy, therefore if the Landlord took over the property from them then why where you not informed in writing by the EA that the deposit had been transferred to the LL?

I would have asked the EA at that point what was happening to your deposit as in your 1st post you stated that the EA told you what deposit scheme your deposit was in. I'd get back in touch with the EA and get the full story.

Also why is the LL having mail delivered to your address when he doesn't live there? Sounds totally dodgy to me.