class 4 garage ????

caris

We do believe that the seats are what you class as dinnette seats not metal coach/minibus seats. As we believe the seats are of wooden construction and only suitable for lap straps how would one be able to fit a car seat as the majority require 3 point belts to which we would need at least 2.

Is it your understanding then that pre 2001 campervans without factory fitted seat belts do no require rear seat belts fitted?? If so what is the legal requirement for carrying children in a camper pre 2001, and does that mean that any adult travelling in the back are NOT required to wear a safety belt?

Thank you

mikey72

There is long and complicated legisalation on seatbelts, and motorhomes.
I was in exactly the same situation as you, with my kids.

First area covers motorhomes.
Pre 2007, if no seatbelts are fitted in the back, you can carry as many people as seats, or as the v5 states, and you insure for.
So, my v5 is blank, I've two cab seats, and the dinette, so I insure for 6.
But, if you retro fit seatbelts, you are then classifying some seats for travel. and some soley for habitation. So you shouldn't use seats without belts, or you should fit them to all seats, or as many as you need.
And if the v5 has a number of seats stated, you have to change it, which is longwinded. But not impossible.

However, there is also the requirement that any child under three is belted in, and uses a proper kiddy seat.
Children three to twelve and under 135cm must be belted in, and use an approved seat, if a belted seat is available.

I never found a kiddy seat for under three approved for use with a lap belt.
That wasn't too much of a problem, as we only had one child under three, so they travelled in the cab seat with me.

The other two were in varying stages of under twelve, and under/over 135cm, so we put them in the forward facing dinette seats, with lapbelts fitted. Strictly speaking we should have used booster seats, but again approval for lap belts had to be verified first, but also because they sat on high on fairly loose cushions, the risk of submaring with the booster was much higher, so they never used them. The lap belts held them ok, very similar to the belt in the car, and without the diagonal there was no real need to raise them up anyway. (The booster seat gets them up higher so the diagonal is on their shoulder, and not across their neck, but it does also make sure the lap belt is across their lap, not across their stomach. With a van the lap belt usually falls from the back of the seat to the floor, not to the wheelarchs, so the belts sit low anyway)

We also put a lapbelt on the rear facing dinette seat.

So the usual mode of travel was one under three in the front, two kids and my wife belted into the back.

Seat belts in the habitation area of mine are never mot'd, as the v5 doesn't specify they are there, so just the cab seats are done.


Fitting isn't difficult,
I put in Securon belts, and it's surprising how little is required for mounting, just a couple of small metal plates under the wooden floor.

quote from their website

"Most cars have anchorage points although they may be hidden behind trim. Where Anchorage Points are not available a level or restraint may be provided by fabricating suitable points. To assist the fabrication we can supply 50 x 42mm plates with 7/16" UNF nuts attached (Part Number 681/4), but we cannot advise to their location or strength."


But, there was no way at all to safely carry two under threes, and no way to be legal doing it either, short of changing the passenger seat to a double seat, and fitting the three point factory fit belt. And you have to research doing that, as some needed the bulkhead still in place. or were even lap belts in the middle seat from the factory.

As to carrying the other kids in the back without any belts, it may be strictly legal, but it's not safe really. You may never get stopped, as no one can see into the back, but an over zealous policeman may give you a hard time if they ever do, as a lot do believe kids should all be strapped in, and motorhome legisalation isn't top of their reading normally.