Rail ticket fine - appeal, or just be grateful?

newfoundglory

They are fines, because thats what joe public calls them! You can't really differentiate between a penalty and a fine, because they are the same thing.

The fact that the ticket inspector said it should have been £400 would likely be fraud by false representation (Section 2, Fraud Act 2006). A £400 fine is untrue and misleading. It was clearly used to extract £20, in an attempt to make it look like a "cheap" option. The ticket inspector would have known this was untrue. Definitely worth reporting to both the police and trading standards.

A court would not issue a fine anywhere near £400 for this.

wealdroam

newfoundglory wrote: »

In this case the poster was definitely referring to a penalty fare as a fine.

It clearly wasn't this poster you saw, as this doesn't mention 'fine'...




Can you possibly take a picture of that poster you saw next time you are passing?

I for one would certainly like to see it.

newfoundglory

Oh, you're right, it wasn't that poster. I think it was a South West trains specific one. Will take a pic if i see it.

newfoundglory

Look here:

http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/penalty-fares.aspx

On the page related to "penalty fares" it says....

With the right train ticket, you will avoid being fined, be able to travel when it suits you and may save yourself money.

:rotfl:

wealdroam

newfoundglory wrote: »

Look here:

http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/penalty-fares.aspx

On the page related to "penalty fares" it says....

With the right train ticket, you will avoid being fined, be able to travel when it suits you and may save yourself money.

:rotfl:

Indeed it does, and thank you for that.

Sorry, but I still cannot see anything that says a Penalty Fare is a fine.
Fines can only be imposed by a court (at least, that's my understanding).

If the railway official thought the holder of the wrong ticket was deliberately avoiding payment, then he is more likely to propose the prosecution route... which could lead to a fine if convicted.

If the authorised collector thought the passenger had made a genuine mistake, then a Penalty Fare might be more appropriate.

They are absolutely right though... by buying the right ticket you will avoid being fined.

You might like to see what the Citizens Advice Bureau's website says on the subject...

Penalty fares

Rail services

Railway operators can impose a penalty fare on a passenger who travels without the correct ticket in some areas. This will be an on the spot penalty above the normal fare and is not a fine. If the fare you should have paid is £10.00 or less, the penalty will be £20.00. If the fare was over £10.00, the penalty fare will be double the fare.

Note the second sentence there...

This will be an on the spot penalty above the normal fare and is not a fine.

N9eav

cubegame wrote: »

Simples.

The penalty fare in unenforceable. The penalty fare rules state (cite this is an appeal) that:-

7.4

An authorised collector must not charge a penalty fare under
rule 6.5 if, when the person entered the compulsory ticket
area:

a there were no facilities available for selling the appropriate
ticket or other authority for the journey the person wanted
to make or for entering the compulsory ticket area;

b warning notices were not displayed at the entrances to the
compulsory ticket area in line with rule 4;

c a notice was displayed which indicated that people were
allowed to board the relevant train or enter the compulsory
ticket area without a ticket or other authority to do so; or

d a person acting, or appearing to act, on behalf of the
operator of the relevant train or of that station indicated
that the person was, or people generally were, allowed to
board that train or enter the compulsory ticket area
without a ticket or other authority to do so.

With reference to d), if the barriers were open the penalty fare in unenforceable. I have been successful using this a reason for an appeal when I decided to travel on an earlier train than booked on because my train was an hour late.

Where are these rules or legislation mentioned or written please ? Most appeals work because you catch them out on their own rules, but i need to know where to quote from, thanks

cubegame

They are in the Penalty Fare Rules 2002.....google that and you should find them.

N9eav

Yep, got them thanks.

7D fits perfectly. Amazing how much money could be scammed off people who are put in fear of the courts or criminal records.