Sisters new job - Alarm bells ringing

ianders

My 17 year old sister has recently started working for a call centre (outbound sales) which on the face of it seemed ok, in reality however, I am getting a bit concerned.

1 - she has been told she will be self employed but doesn't need to do anything as she won't be earning enough to pay tax.

I would have thought she would have to register and declare income regardless whether it was over the £7,475 threshold or not?

2 - Yesterday she went straight from school but the transport leaves her a bit tight for starting and made it there 1 minute late. She was told if it happens again she will be sent home and docked £40 from her pay.

I wouldn't think this would be legal? If so, for the sake of a minute, would they not have to have some sort of atomic clock etc?

3 - On her "trial" shift, she was given a list of peoples names and phone numbers, she brought this home (don't think they should have let her to be quite honest, data protection??).
Anyway, on the list, about 80% of the names had "TPS" next to it. Having some knowledge of the telephone preference service, I asked if she was calling these numbers to which she said they had told her to phone them, if anyone said they were on the TPS, apologise and hang up.

Being self-employed, I started wondering if someone was to follow through a TPS complaint, would any potential fines etc fall directly on her?

I think I'll be recommending that she doesn't go back and keeps looking for other work...

Emmzi

if she is self employed she can choose her own hours - is part of the definition - so this docking for 1 minute late is, I believe, rubbish. 85% sure. 15% need a SE specialist to confirm.

They sound vile though. I would be leaving as soon as I could. I'd actually be looking for a xmas job in a shop as retail customer experience is always always useful to have on your cv, more than call centre.

Emmzi

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/Taxes/WorkingAndPayingTax/DG_4015975

agrinnall

I think you are right to be concerned. I doubt very much if your sister is actually self employed, it sounds like she is told what times to work and is directed on what to do, both of which HMRC would regard as pointers towards employment. I suspect whoever she's working for is trying to get out of their obligation to run PAYE and provide other employment rights.

Calling people who have registered with TPS is at the least very bad practice, I don't know whether it's actually illegal or against any other rules but it sounds like this company knows they are doing wrong and doesn't care.

To be honest I think your sister would be a lot safer finding a job elsewhere, and I think a call to HMRC and TPS about the company might be the action of a good citizen.

SHIPSHAPE

Emmzi wrote: »

if she is self employed she can choose her own hours - is part of the definition - so this docking for 1 minute late is, I believe, rubbish. 85% sure. 15% need a SE specialist to confirm.

Incorrect, just because someone is self employed doesn't necessarily mean they choose their own hours, especially when contracted to work for a company.

It's no use a self employed builder contracted to Wimpey, for example, only being available from 10pm to 6am, they'd never get used.

The young girl obviously has to work during hours where phone calls are made to customers at acceptable times, again, she cannot realistically choose to work 10pm to 6am and calling people at home!

Having said that, I'd say HMRC would consider working in a call centre environment, being fined for being late & being instructed to call numbers that shouldn't be called more an employed position.

She should be informing HMRC of her status in this circumstance as it appears this firm should be looked into.

Emmzi

From the directgov link above

You are probably self-employed if you:

• run your own business and take responsibility for its success or failure
• have several customers at the same time
• can decide how, when and where you do your work
• are free to hire other people to do the work for you or help you at your own expense
• provide the main items of equipment to do your work

scheming_gypsy

if they're docking her pay then she can't be self employed can she? If she's self employed she'd invoice them for her time

Claree__x

I worked in a call centre like this when I was 16/17 - as someone said above, it's easier for them to tell you to register as self employed, but she does have to register regardless of how little she is earning.

SHIPSHAPE

Emmzi wrote: »

From the directgov link above

You are probably self-employed if you:

• run your own business and take responsibility for its success or failure
• have several customers at the same time
• can decide how, when and where you do your work
• are free to hire other people to do the work for you or help you at your own expense
• provide the main items of equipment to do your work

The point is that the young lady is probably not self employed. The company can say what they like, HMRC decide if one is or isn't self employed.

However, one can be self employed but also be told what hours to work should one be contracted to work for a firm on a self employed basis.

easy

Claree__x wrote: »

it's easier for them to tell you to register as self employed, but she does have to register regardless of how little she is earning.

No, it isn't just easier for them, it allows them to totally evade their responsibilities as employers, including the need to pay any taxes or employers NI, insure against staff being injured on their premises and more.

Furthermore, it is illegal to call people who are registered with the TPS. But if the people doing the calling are not registered as employees of the call centre, then the call centre will argue that they are not liable !!

This isn't a job, it's a scam. Please tell your sister not to turn up at all ever again.

My guess is that if she does do any work for them, they will find all sorts of reasons to dock pay from her, and she'll get actually paid very little or nothing.

In your shoes, I would also make a report to HMRC (albeit anonymously) concerning the "employer"

InsideInsurance

scheming_gypsy wrote: »

if they're docking her pay then she can't be self employed can she?

Of cause they can, it is common for payments to be reduced because of failure to perform or meet SLAs.

As she is self employed they couldn't dock her salary, because she doesnt get one from them, but they can deduct from payment