8,000 pound gas bill I did not use

shoppingman

I was wondering if anybody else has had a problem like mine. I have been given a bill for 8,000 pounds which I did not use. I am a landlord and have a house divided into 3 flats. All bills are paid by the tenants as they signed contracts to do this. Also the tenancy has been arranged by an agency which handles the full management of the property. It came to light at the start of 2011 that there were 4 meters in the house. 3 were for cooking and one was shared between the 3 house for heating. This worked fine until 2004 when a tenant who was collecting all the money left. Since then the gas company has been supplying gas to the house and never cut off the gas. even when the meters are in common hallway. At the start of 2011 when I found out this happening I immediately changed all the systems in the house so there was one boiler per flat. As the gas company says it can not collect the money from the other tenants who do not want to say they are not responsible. The gas company says that I am responsible and are going to try and take legal action against me and said if I do not pay it would adversely affect my credit rating.

Has anyone any ideas /help on what to do? I am totally SHOCKED that the gas company would let a bill get so big and also shocked they are trying to get me to pay.

DVardysShadow

On first appearances I thought it was a try on by your gas supplier. But given that there are 3 properties on the one gas supply for heating, I would say that as Landlord you have been neglecting proper management of the property to ensure that there was always a lead tenant for gas supplies.

While it is obvious that you can let a property with its own gas supply and make the tenants of that property responsible for the supply to that property as part of the contract, I think you cannot dump the responsibility for a shared gas supply for 3 properties on any tenant.

Any debt older than 6 years is statute barred, so you don't have to pay.

shoppingman

I am not a nasty Landlord. I have a large number of properties that have always been fully managed by an agent and I was not informed of the heating situation

DVardysShadow

shoppingman wrote: »

I am not a nasty Landlord.

Who of the many posters so far have said you are?

shoppingman wrote: »

I have a large number of properties that have always been fully managed by an agent and I was not informed of the heating situation

But as Landlord you are deemed to know about how the communal heating is billed. You may have a negligence claim against your Agent for not advising you about the tenant or for authorising the lead gas supply tenant arrangement and not managing it. You may have claims against previous tenants for gas heating supplied but not paid for.

But the shared heating system, as I see it, is yours and yours alone. You are responsible for the gas supplied, the tenants are responsible to you for the heating you supplied. Your problem is that the boiler is not part of any of the 'demised premises' - it cannot be, because it is shared. So there is no way that you can assign responsibility to any of your tenants.

Silk

shoppingman wrote: »

I am not a nasty Landlord. I have a large number of properties that have always been fully managed by an agent and I was not informed of the heating situation

Looks to me like you need to take the matter up with your agent

shoppingman

Also what I find amazing that for 6 years the gas company carried on supplying the gas without cutting it off

spiro

Although on a larger scale this appears the same as communual lighting in flats, tenants pay their own elec and pay for communal lighting via some form of fee.

It appears that the contracts were badly worded if they did not say the tenants they were liable for their own gas bill plus their share of the communal heating bill.

If the agent was solely responsible for the block, contracts, letting them etc I would say they have failed you but that said this is a 'third party dispute'. In this case between you (owner) and the tenants or agent. Looks like you will have to pay and they try and reclaim the money, however this may be difficult depending on the exact wording of the contracts (between you and agent & you and tenants).

jalexa

shoppingman wrote: »

This worked fine until 2004 when a tenant who was collecting all the money left

Sorry I don't understand that. The issue is what became of the British Gas bills for the "4th meter"?

If there were no bills, IMO the backbilling provisions of the "Billing Code" apply.

I would suggest that you make a £10 Subject Access Request of British Gas requiring provision of all held information, specifically including copies of the bills for the "4th meter" going back 6 years.

Then decide whether or not to invoke the "back-billing" provisions of the Billing Code.

spiro

jalexa wrote: »

Sorry I don't understand that. The issue is what became of the British Gas bills for the "4th meter"?

If there were no bills, IMO the backbilling provisions of the "Billing Code" apply.

I would suggest that you make a £10 Subject Access Request of British Gas requiring provision of all held information, specifically including copies of the bills for the "4th meter" going back 6 years.

Then decide whether or not to invoke the "back-billing" provisions of the Billing Code.

Given that the 4th bill is for communual heating which the landlord is liable for (due to contract) then I am not sure the Billing Code applies as it only applies to Domestic customers and I doubt a LL will be classed as domestic as there are a business.

jalexa

spiro wrote: »

I am not sure the Billing Code applies as it only applies to Domestic customers and I doubt a LL will be classed as domestic as there are a business.

I don't "disagree" with your points, only that these points (and especially) the bill wherebouts needs to be "tested" and an appropriate forum is the Energy Ombudsman.

Of course forum posts provide a somewhat "sanitised" vesion of a problem.

Regarding whether it is "domestic" or "business" supply the "contract" will provide an indication.

Premier_2

shoppingman wrote: »

I was wondering if anybody else has had a problem like mine. I have been given a bill for 8,000 pounds which I did not use. I am a landlord and have a house divided into 3 flats. All bills are paid by the tenants as they signed contracts to do this. Also the tenancy has been arranged by an agency which handles the full management of the property. It came to light at the start of 2011 that there were 4 meters in the house. 3 were for cooking and one was shared between the 3 house for heating. This worked fine until 2004 when a tenant who was collecting all the money left. Since then the gas company has been supplying gas to the house and never cut off the gas. even when the meters are in common hallway. At the start of 2011 when I found out this happening I immediately changed all the systems in the house so there was one boiler per flat. As the gas company says it can not collect the money from the other tenants who do not want to say they are not responsible. The gas company says that I am responsible and are going to try and take legal action against me and said if I do not pay it would adversely affect my credit rating.

Has anyone any ideas /help on what to do? I am totally SHOCKED that the gas company would let a bill get so big and also shocked they are trying to get me to pay.

It matters not who is alleged to have used the supply. Whoever registered the account is responsible for the usage the meter records.

If you let the property, you are responsible for contacting the supplier and closing the account.

I'm not sure how exactly you can expect 3 different tenants who presumably have different tenancy agreements to agree to a common shared meter account. Your best solution would be to have kept control of the account and ensured the TAs included terms for how the gas charge would be recovered ... or better still just ensure the rent includes the cost of the gas ... or best still, get the installation changed so that each dwelling has it's own metered supply!

As for the cost, are you sure the billed amount is correct? Is it based on actual meter readings? Have they calculated the cost based on the correct type of meter? £8k of gas for what was a single house just for gas seems a lot of money just for heating unless this has been going on for a considerable number of years.

You would have had the bills in your name at one time, and that would have shown a total of 4 meters. When you didn't get final bills for all 4 meters you should have asked why.
A a business owner (landlord) you have to be responsible for your own business.