Replacing gas fire - but what with?

puffin9888

Hi,
We have matching fireplaces in a lounge/diner: solid fuel in the diner, and gas in the lounge.
The gas fire is totally useless, looks lovely, but the little heat it generates goes straight up the chimney.
The solid fuel fieplace is a bit better, but you can only fit about one or two logs in at a time and gives off a small amount of heat.
I am thinking about getting the gas supply capped off and removing the gas fire. Has anyone any suggestions on what the cheapest/most efficient replacement would be? Is there a better solid fuel fire on the market, or get a massive firebasket, etc...????

sugarwalsh

We had our gas fire removed and boarded over the hole. WE then wall papered it. The chimney wasn't right for a solid fuel fire and I don't like the look of gas ones. It doesn't look weird and we don't suffer due to loss of heat as our house is well insulated. All it has done is given us more useable space as we can now put things where we couldn't before.

Megan

ormus

fires are pretty inefficient at the best of times.
get a new boiler and use the CH.
far more efficient.

unless you can get tons of free wood?

moonrakerz

puffin9888 wrote: »

Has anyone any suggestions on what the cheapest/most efficient replacement would be?

............a modern efficient gas fire !!

The latest ones are about 90% efficient - which trumps anything other than an electric fire.

http://www.valor.co.uk/1797.htm

moonrakerz

andrew-b wrote: »

Or an electric one? Bit more expensive per kwH

understatement of the year !!!!!


Electricity costs 3 times as much per kWh as gas..............

rustyboy21

A recent survey from the energy savings trust said that an electric fire was not classed as 100 % efficient. They took into account the loss of energy from when the electric is generated at a power station, to when it arrives at your home, and the use of the lights for the flame picture as well as the fan to run the ribbons to make the flame picture. They calculated that an electric fire was in fact...........( drum roll ) 27% efficient ! ( over 2/3 rds of electricity is lost in transit)

Gas calculated in these terms would come out at approx 98% covering for any leaks en route to your house

The new HE fires are good though. you dont lose as much heat out of your room due to the glass front which restricts flue draw from your room. I have fitted numerous ones in the past year and had a lot of good complements. As long as they are fitted correctly, you will find them as hot as other tyes of gas fire ( eg Outset radiant ones )

Flueless 100% eficient fires are not 100% they come out at approx 50% due to the need for vents in your walls and the need to have 'ambiant heat' in your room first i.e radiators on so the 'cat' in it works correctly otherwise you have condensation problems

moonrakerz

rustyboy21 wrote: »

They took into account the loss of energy from when the electric is generated at a power station, to when it arrives at your home, and the use of the lights for the flame picture as well as the fan to run the ribbons to make the flame picture. They calculated that an electric fire was in fact...........( drum roll ) 27% efficient ! ( over 2/3 rds of electricity is lost in transit)

That is a completely specious argument !!! Or to be blunt - sheer rubbish !

An electric fire is 100% efficient. It converts 100% of the energy it consumes into heat.

Who ever produced these figures knows as much about electricity as I know about dress making.............any electricity consumed by the light and the fan generates - guess what - heat !!!

In a "1kW" fire, if the heating element uses 500W and the fan 250W and the flame 250W the fire still produces 1kW of heat............

You can put any old rubbish on the web and people will believe it !!

rustyboy21

moonrakerz wrote: »

That is a completely specious argument !!! Or to be blunt - sheer rubbish !

An electric fire is 100% efficient. It converts 100% of the energy it consumes into heat.

Who ever produced these figures knows as much about electricity as I know about dress making.............any electricity consumed by the light and the fan generates - guess what - heat !!!

In a "1kW" fire, if the heating element uses 500W and the fan 250W and the flame 250W the fire still produces 1kW of heat............

You can put any old rubbish on the web and people will believe it !!

How can an LED bulb ( which most electric fires have these days) create any useable heat? But it is still using electric !

Also I said the fan , which runs the ribbon effect, not the fan which pushes the heat out, does not emit any heat. That is also using electric. If you take an electric fire apart, 95% of them have 2 fans in them. One for the convector element of the fire, the other for the running of the flame picture.

The energy savings trust is ( as far as I am aware) a government organised body. What I was told, by a person who was actually on the board of the investigation, was that the board consisted of manufacturers of said appliances, alongside respected academics.

With your equation you would find that the fire was 50% efficient . You dont get heat from the flame picture or the bulb. I have sold more electric and gas fires in my working life than you have had hot dinners , buddy

And try to be a little more polite next time you reply to one of my comments !

Although an HE gas fire will give you much better heat output and less noise than an electric fire, as well as heat your room faster

rustyboy21

andrew-b wrote: »

Or an electric one? Bit more expensive per kwH but more efficient and you don't need to service it regularly like a gas fire as it's not going to kill you with carbon monoxide poisoning! You can also have them on with just the flame effect and no heat output to make the room look nice even in the summer. You also don't need to provide ventilation to the room which you often do with gas fires.

We currently have a Valor living flame gas fire that was there when we moved in. In 5 years we've used it about 3 times for no more than a couple of hours in total! I'm considering having the gas fire removed, cap off the gas supply and get an electric inset fire put in instead which i feel would be safer with a baby in the house.

Has anyone else gone from an inset gas fire to inset electric fire? What would i have to do with the existing chimney as ours has a metal flue liner? Would i need to change the cap on the chimney? I know if you cap a chimney off your supposed to leave a ventilation vent but what if your putting an electric fire in instead?

If you were to cap the flue off, you would need to provide ventilation for the flue. It would also be prudent to seal off the flue inside the room, as although you have a metal liner there, there will still be old soot up the flue, which may drop down and ruin your carpet/firesurround.

Changing to an electric fire is personal choice really, look at a lot of fires first. The most common type of flame picture on electrics is a ribbon effect, although I feel they are not very realistic. There are other flame pictures on the market, may be a little dearer, but do look a lot better, see them in the flesh, just dont go out and buy one off the internet. And in any case keep away from Firesgalore website ( look at trouble people are having on the praise/vents section !)

rustyboy21

Hi Andrew

A lot of people I know , who have electric fires fitted into an existing flue, normally leave the flue uncapped and push some rockwool or even an old pillow up the flue, so it stops draughts. You may be better fitting something like a class 2 gas cowl instead of a pot, as it would stop most of the rain coming down the flue.

If your house is a traditional style of house, to me taking the fireplace out takes away from the room. If you see progrms like 60 min makeover, they are normally putting in fireplaces, not taking them out.

hope this helps

moonrakerz

rustyboy21 wrote: »

And try to be a little more polite next time you reply to one of my comments !

Right - where shall we start ?

Firstly, I was not being impolite to you, I was pointing out that the argument you quoted was "rubbish", which it patently is...........

rustyboy21 wrote: »

How can an LED bulb ( which most electric fires have these days) create any useable heat? But it is still using electric !

A 50W halogen bulb produces almost 50W of heat - that is why they get incredibly hot. The LED lights in my kitchen ceiling produce 7W of heat (and the heat is better managed in an LED fitting)that is why they are barely warm to the touch. According to your line of argument, my lights should be one seventh as bright.
My Dyson gets hot when I use it - do you think it should run cold ? The 1200W of electricity that it consumes is magically transformed into "suck" ???
MY TV gets hot.
My electric drill gets hot.
My PC gets hot.
The compressor on my fridge gets hot (perhaps it should get cold !)

rustyboy21 wrote: »

With your equation you would find that the fire was 50% efficient . You dont get heat from the flame picture or the bulb. I have sold more electric and gas fires in my working life than you have had hot dinners , buddy

1. The fire is 100% efficient. (near as dammit!)
2. You DO get heat from the other items which consume electricity.
3. It would appear from your comments on your sales prowess that you are a shop assistant - which explains your total lack of understanding of anything to do with electricity. Currys - perhaps ?
4. As you previously mentioned politeness - my name isn't "buddy" !