Solar energy - Feed-in Tariff payment delays - your experiences?

battelaxe

Wooo Hoooo! Just spoke to my installation company and they have a recorded delivery receipt for the 1st March. YAY!

Thanks for your support, I will be back if this backfires though! :j

sly_dog_jonah

battelaxe wrote: »

Wooo Hoooo! Just spoke to my installation company and they have a recorded delivery receipt for the 1st March. YAY!

Thanks for your support, I will be back if this backfires though! :j

EDF won't have a leg to stand on then so long as the application was fully completed (i.e. no further info needed). So you can relax, you'll get the FiT at the rate due to you.

If EDF mess you around, insist on making a formal complaint (in writing) and you should get compensation for your time & effort. £30 is quite typical.

Martyn1981

Well, apparently, EDF have lost the plot, and don't know how to interpret any of the EPC related legislation.

Got my new contract yesterday, it only took 2 weeks, because as an extension, I'm already on the OFGEM database etc. That's the good news.

Decided to read the contract before signing, not a bad idea usually.

FITs tariff 9p. Sorry let's check that again, yep, still 9p, not the 16.8p (4-10kWp rate) I was expecting.

So I ring EDF and politely ask what the hell they are up to. They point out that the MCS certificate and the EPC certificate are dated the day after the install. Yep I say, paperwork done the next day.

That means you didn't have a valid EPC when the system was installed. Correct again I say, since the PV can go towards your EPC, so you would do it on or after the install. It only has to be valid when the FITs application is made.

Would you like me to speak to my supervisor? [STRIKE]No I'd like to receive the lower rate for 25 years please[/STRIKE] Yes please, that would be helpful.

I'll ring back in an hour. 5 hours later I ring back to find EDF shut their phonelines early.

So I ring this morning, explain again. They're still confused.

I offer to supply them with the legislation, statutory instruments, DECC FAQ site, or the phone number for the EST who were utterly baffled by EDF's approach when I told them.

No thanks, we're fine, we just need a few minutes to look into this further.

30 mins later.........

So anyone who has 'done a FITs' through EDF since the 1/4/12 might I suggest you double check your contract to make sure you've got the right tariff.

I will update shortly (in EDF time, I may be gone sometime).

Mart.

sly_dog_jonah

Another case of EDF not knowing one part of their anatomy from their elbow. :shocked:

Keep plugging away Martyn.

edwink

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Well, apparently, EDF have lost the plot, and don't know how to interpret any of the EPC related legislation.

Got my new contract yesterday, it only took 2 weeks, because as an extension, I'm already on the OFGEM database etc. That's the good news.

Decided to read the contract before signing, not a bad idea usually.

FITs tariff 9p. Sorry let's check that again, yep, still 9p, not the 16.8p (4-10kWp rate) I was expecting.

So I ring EDF and politely ask what the hell they are up to. They point out that the MCS certificate and the EPC certificate are dated the day after the install. Yep I say, paperwork done the next day.

That means you didn't have a valid EPC when the system was installed. Correct again I say, since the PV can go towards your EPC, so you would do it on or after the install. It only has to be valid when the FITs application is made.

Would you like me to speak to my supervisor? [STRIKE]No I'd like to receive the lower rate for 25 years please[/STRIKE] Yes please, that would be helpful.

I'll ring back in an hour. 5 hours later I ring back to find EDF shut their phonelines early.

So I ring this morning, explain again. They're still confused.

I offer to supply them with the legislation, statutory instruments, DECC FAQ site, or the phone number for the EST who were utterly baffled by EDF's approach when I told them.

No thanks, we're fine, we just need a few minutes to look into this further.

30 mins later.........

So anyone who has 'done a FITs' through EDF since the 1/4/12 might I suggest you double check your contract to make sure you've got the right tariff.

I will update shortly (in EDF time, I may be gone sometime).

Mart.

You go for it Mart!!! Good luck!!!!!!

Ed

battelaxe

If you did your FITs through edf at any time, check your contract. If I hadn't carefully read my confirmation, I would have gratefully and automatically agreed to the lower rate. Don't let the b^^^^s grind you down.

Martyn1981

sly_dog_jonah wrote: »

Another case of EDF not knowing one part of their anatomy from their elbow. :shocked:

Keep plugging away Martyn.

Hiya SDJ and Edwink, what fun!

Well 'a few minutes' turned into 90mins so I rang them again. Oh we asked a manager to call you back, and they will when they get the chance. So why didn't you ring me, after a few minutes just to let me know?

Anyways, they are claiming the EPC is after the eligibility date, so I referred them to the definition of eligibility date, which is the later of, blah blah blah, but for me, 'the FIT application'.

They tell me, ah, but, yes, but no, but yes, it's an extension. So I refers them to the statutory instrument October 2011 that states that an extension is a separate entity (apart from adding the kWp together for the banding tariff).

Ah, but yes, but no, we're using more up to date legislation. Pray tell me, what that legislation be then I asked? Ah but yes but no but, I don't know it, but I know it's more up to date than yours.

So we've settled on a truce, where they will by tomorrow morning (if possible!!!!!!!) e-mail me the legislation that changes the rules.

Checked again with the OFGEM guidance, and with the EST, and they are still baffled, so are looking into the legislation for me. Interesting point though from the EST, the legislation is deliberately set that EPC can be sought after the install, so that you can carry out new works, to reach EPC 'D' before submitting the FIT application. It's there to encourage you, it doesn't really work the other way round.

Ho hum, what fun!

Updates to follow tomorrow morning in EDF time, so, have a great Xmas if you don't hear from me before then.

Mart.

Martyn1981

Ok, next update - this one gets complicated!

Spoke to EDF again, this time we had a really friendly chat, and started to get somewhere. Turns out OFGEM issued new guidance to the leccy companies which was published on the 26th July, and came into force on the 26th July too.

This has a different definition of 'eligibility' date for extensions, to 'normal' installs. The nice Lady at EDF (yes, she's become the nice lady, now we're no longer seeing whose got the biggest legislation) said they've been arguing with OFGEM about this since June. Shame nobody told me!

So for a regular install, the definition of eligibility date (by which you must have an EPC D or better) includes 'the FIT application date' as one of the laters.

For an extension, OFGEM in their wonderful wisdom, have decided to define the eligibility date as 'the commissioning date only'.

Now for the good news, I asked why so much fuss when my MCS cert is the same day as the EPC, but she pointed out the MCS cert states the commissioning date as the previous day, therefore I didn't have a valid EPC on the day. I pointed out, that the electrical testing wasn't done till the next day, as the test kit was with the installer's other team, so it was tested and switched on the next day, the same day as the EPC cert is dated.

We both came up with the same idea at the same time (well maybe she beat me to it, just) to ask the installer to amend the certificate, which he can do, and has, turns out it was just a typo. Hopefully I'll have the amended cert tomorrow. So saved by the fact that the system wasn't tested and switched on (the very definition of 'commissioned') till the next day.

The moral of the story - well there isn't one, you can do everything possible, but the rules are still in flux, and may change mid game, giving you a red card, even though you thought you were playing fair.

So, just to repeat, OFGEM practically encourage you to get an EPC on or after an install. But you're dead in the water if you get an EPC after an extension install (since 26/7/12).

At least my faith in EDF has been restored, they do know what they are doing, even if they don't agree with it.

You couldn't make this stuff up!

Mart.

battelaxe

Does this hold for new installations back in March? I have just found out that my application sent by Special Delivery was a day late because of fog at Exeter airport. I still think that Ofgem has created a precedent with the following:

"Eligibility Date and Eligibility Period
The date from which a generator is eligible to receive payments for electricity generated and exported is known as the Eligibility Date. The Eligibility Date is defined as the later of the following dates:

a) A FIT supplier received a written request for FIT registration (including MCS certificate),
b) Ofgem received a request for ROO-FIT accreditation, or
c) The commissioning date of the installation"

I have started a petition on the Facebook Causes app to collect as many folk who are suffering the same fate. Hopefully this will be enough, but I, for one, am willing to take this to law. https://www.causes.com/actions/1674770 if anyone wants to join the campaign, take a look.

Martyn1981

Hiya battleaxe, that is the standard definition of 'eligibility date', but it also includes option d, commencement date, but as this refers to the launch of the FITs scheme in April 2010, you can mostly ignore it.

The problem with the extension is that the OFGEM guidance now works on the basis that the commissioning date is the 'later' as the FIT application date is not when you submit the extension application, but when you submitted the original application:-

"The eligibility date for the extension will be based on its commissioning date only, as the application date is that of the original installation."

however, that is 'only' guidance, and appears to contradict the latest legal document which is the statutory instrument issued in October 2011, which clearly states:

"treat the extension as a separate eligible installation".

The trouble is, whilst that is 'only' guidance, the REC's software for inputting the FITs applications is OFGEM's software, so there is no way around this, without a legal battle with OFGEM!

I've contacted MCS today who weren't aware of this, and are now reading the guidance, and will notify the installers as appropriate.

I'd hate for other people to fall into this trap, especially as nobody (except EDF) seemed to know about it.

Mart.