Council Tax Debt Paid but Bailiffs turned up!

DVardysShadow

Dave, edit your posts and take all locations and identifying details out.

Don't get mad, don't go around shouting all around the houses. Just quietly establish that you owe nothing. Then honeypot him, with your wife phoning to offer him the money. Agree a time, have a witness tucked away in another room but within earshot and get him to produce his evidence of your debt. And you produce your evidence that it is paid. Then demand that he apologises to your wife.

After that make a big noise about it.

edit: I suspect this could be a freelance activity.

FireWyrm

hallowitch wrote: »

yes you did



“Information preliminary to distress

45A.—(1) No distress shall be made under these regulations unless, no less than 14 days before a visit in connection with the distress is first made to the premises where it is to be levied, the authority have sent to the debtor written notice of the matters specified in paragraph (2) below.
(2) The matters are—
(a)the fact that a liability order has been made against the debtor;
(b)the amount in respect of which the liability order was made and, where this is a different amount, the amount which remains outstanding;
(c)a warning that unless the amount specified has been paid before the expiry of 14 days beginning on the date of the sending of the notice, distress may be levied;
(d)notice that if distress is levied further costs will be incurred by the debtor;
(e)the fees prescribed in Schedule 5 to these Regulations;
(f)the address and telephone number at which the debtor can communicate with the authority.”

Then did I miss something? The OP came home to find his wife upset and his child frightened by this sorry excuse for a man. I assumed from this that he had received no prior warning of the intended visit, no chance to defend himself, or to arrange a payment plan...isn't this a contravention of the law and as such, just a little more than procedural oversight? Surely, this alone would have got the whole thing sent back to square one if he did owe a debt, and since he doesn't, is clear grounds for a serious complaint?

hallowitch

FireWyrm wrote: »

Then did I miss something? The OP came home to find his wife upset and his child frightened by this sorry excuse for a man. I assumed from this that he had received no prior warning of the intended visit, no chance to defend himself, or to arrange a payment plan...isn't this a contravention of the law and as such, just a little more than procedural oversight? Surely, this alone would have got the whole thing sent back to square one if he did owe a debt, and since he doesn't, is clear grounds for a serious complaint?

I'm no expert but my interpretation of this is



as we know all letter are automatically generated and if a debtor has moved home then this letter would have been sent to there old address however i think it should also be sent to there new address because the new address is where the goods are to be levied,

dave0922

FireWyrm wrote: »

Then did I miss something? The OP came home to find his wife upset and his child frightened by this sorry excuse for a man. I assumed from this that he had received no prior warning of the intended visit, no chance to defend himself, or to arrange a payment plan...isn't this a contravention of the law and as such, just a little more than procedural oversight? Surely, this alone would have got the whole thing sent back to square one if he did owe a debt, and since he doesn't, is clear grounds for a serious complaint?

This is what I am thinking. We had no prior warning of any sort of action, visits etc... Besides the point that the debt in question has been paid off over a year ago. What the hell is going on here and where on earth did he get this debt info from. The debt in question was from a liability order from 18 months ago, which we then made a special arrangement with the council and paid it all off (including court fees's) in monthly instalments with no further concerns on the matter.

Its begining to seem like this so called bailiff was here to try his luck. Or somebody, i.e.. council, has not updated there records very well.

dave0922

Just been speaking to my wife an have gathered some more details of his visit.

My wife says that he would not give her his full name and said that he did not have to by law. She also said that at this point he was shaking? She was not sure if he was shaking out of anger or nervousness?

He did not leave a calling card or contact details for himself.

The documents he left (walking possesion order) were not filled out on the front with details of the debts in question, just the back part was filled out with amounts owed (which are not owed at all) and fee's and list of items he thinks he can take.

My wife repeatedly asked him to leave and he refused to leave until she had signed the forms.

He then left saying that we had 14 days (14 days for what exactly?)

The only contact details we were left with is those of the company (Rossendales).

This all seems very fishy to me and thank god we have notified the police about it. The police asked us to call back tommorow after visiting the council and magistrates court to update the case file.

I am starting to seriously wonder if this is a conman at work?

hallowitch

dave0922 wrote: »

Just been speaking to my wife an have gathered some more details of his visit.

My wife says that he would not give her his full name and said that he did not have to by law.
yes he does by law have to give his name

She also said that at this point he was shaking? She was not sure if he was shaking out of anger or nervousness?

this makes me wonder if he is certificated or a new bailiff
He did not leave a calling card or contact details for himself.
this should be on the notice of seizure/distress

The documents he left (walking possession order) were not filled out on the front with details of the debts in question, just the back part was filled out with amounts owed (which are not owed at all) and fee's and list of items he thinks he can take.
your notice of distress should have
your name address council tax ref , rossendales ref, what the debt is (council tax or pnc)
list of goods levied
outstanding balance
fees
bailiffs signature
bailiffs phone number

I would like to know what goods he has levied
what fees he has charged

it should also have Rossendales at the top of it (i have a rossendales notice of distress in front of me belonging to a friend i am helping )

My wife repeatedly asked him to leave and he refused to leave until she had signed the forms.
nothing new there
He then left saying that we had 14 days (14 days for what exactly?)
before he allegedly attends to remove goods levied if the debt and fees are not paid within 14 days
The only contact details we were left with is those of the company (Rossendales).
the notice i have does not have the bailiff phone number on it
it should have because you have to negotiate payment with the bailiff not rossendales

if you phone rossendales to ask for time to pay or try to arrange a payment plan they aways refer you to the bailiff
This all seems very fishy to me and thank god we have notified the police about it. The police asked us to call back tomorrow after visiting the council and magistrates court to update the case file.

I am starting to seriously wonder if this is a conman at work?

If this person has a rossendales notice of distress pad then he is working for rossendales or an ex employee who is at it

FireWyrm

Conman..perhaps but unlikely. More likely, this was an inexperienced bully who went about this all backwards. He should have given his name but I don't believe there is specific law covering this. You do however have a right to know the charges as it were, so you should be made clearly aware of what this whole thing related to. You should have received notice of an intended visit as we have established and given reasonable opportunity to defend yourself by making a payment plan etc. I would get your proof together and then depending on how ticked you are, pursue it back to his employer and the court using the law. The police seem to be on your side. However, I would also take reasonable steps to ensure my home was secure, just in case this was a case of a thief scoping you out. For future reference, no one save the police have the right to enter your home and the second he refused to leave, your wife should have picked up the phone and called the police. Never sign anything on the doorstep and never invite anyone in you do not know.

Edit...hollowitch has advised that he does have to give his name...my mistake.

dave0922

I just read somewhere that the bailiff should not have acted or discussed anything in front of a minor. Can anybody confirm if this is correct?

hallowitch

dave0922 wrote: »

I just read somewhere that the bailiff should not have acted or discussed anything in front of a minor. Can anybody confirm if this is correct?

no not correct
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.dca.gov.uk/enforcement/agents02.htm
Enforcement agents must withdraw from domestic premises if the only person present is, or appears to be, under the age of 18; they can ask when the debtor will be home - if appropriate.
Enforcement agents must withdraw without making enquiries if the only persons present are children who appear to be under the age of 12.

dave0922

This is a debt that was paid off a long time ago. Tommorow we will gather the evidence from the council that this is indeed a paid debt.

We will also demand and will refuse to leave the councils offices until they have contacted rossendales and told them to get off our backs.

Then we will take our evidence to the magistrates court where the original liability was filed and report the bailiff in question for gaining access under false identity (magistrates court bailiff).

After all of this, in theory, we should be left well alone, but, after reading other simillar cases it would appear that these thick skulled idiots still think that they can come and claim their fees. What should we do if this happens? I will definatly call the police, but an they actually charged their visiting fees for a debt that does not even exist anymore?