Shh we wont tell anyone (school)

alleycat`

jellyhead wrote: »

Claiming for everyone who is entitled to free school meals isn't fraud though. I don't think they are claiming the cost of the actual meals, just the extra money that's set aside for children who get FSM.

Just because a parent sends their child with a healthy packed lunch when they are not impressed with the dinner menu doesn't mean that the school shouldn't claim the funding for that child, in my opinion.

Whilst i fully understand where you are coming from, i have to say i disagree.
If the family can afford to chose to not have the meals then they have made a choice not to accept that funding.

The school should only be using the money for the children they are feeding.

My thoughts on it anyway.

sassyblue

jellyhead wrote: »

Claiming for everyone who is entitled to free school meals isn't fraud though. I don't think they are claiming the cost of the actual meals, just the extra money that's set aside for children who get FSM.

Sadly it is fraud, the money claimed won't be going on school meals but other things. If every school did this there would be millions of £s less of tax payers money in the coffers for everything else. What public body suffers next through lack of funds, NHS, carers allowance, disability benefits??

Somewhere along the line the school has to lie in their book-keeping as they're not buying the freebie meals they are claiming for.

Let's put it another way, if it was down to the parents to claim they could and then spend the money on fags or booze, would that be ok??

Don't get me wrong l am sympathetic for the schools but this isn't the right thing to do.

ETA: We've had a letter about this from my sons school too.....

Svenena

I think some people are misunderstanding. Schools are able to claim additional funding depending on how many pupils are eligible for FSM. This is not to pay for the meals, but to provide extra services, as statistically those from lower income backgrounds perform less well academically. Eligibility for FSM is a measure of family income, basically.

It's not like they get the money to pay for the meals, but would prefer pupils not to actually claim them! If every student entitled to FSM claimed, they would get x amount to cover the meals, PLUS y amount to provide extra services.

jellyhead

Can somebody clarify - where does the money for the free meals come from? I assumed it was a separate thing. Do schools get x amount to pay for the meals whether the child eats the meals or not?

sassyblue

jellyhead wrote: »

Can somebody clarify - where does the money for the free meals come from? I assumed it was a separate thing. Do schools get x amount to pay for the meals whether the child eats the meals or not?

It would come via the council aducation authority l assume, it's public money wherever it comes from.

sassyblue

Svenena wrote: »

I think some people are misunderstanding. Schools are able to claim additional funding depending on how many pupils are eligible for FSM. This is not to pay for the meals, but to provide extra services, as statistically those from lower income backgrounds perform less well academically. Eligibility for FSM is a measure of family income, basically.

It's not like they get the money to pay for the meals, but would prefer pupils not to actually claim them! If every student entitled to FSM claimed, they would get x amount to cover the meals, PLUS y amount to provide extra services.

No, it's quite clear it's to pay for meals even if they're not being claimed.

There are no 'extra services' provided by the school for lower income families, cost of uniform, bags etc is not supplied by the school. Extra tuition costs are provided by the school and l don't believe there are that many children needing extra tuition....

jellyhead

sassyblue wrote: »

It would come via the council aducation authority l assume, it's public money wherever it comes from.

What i meant was how does the school get the money for the meals, or is it supposed to come out of this funding we're talking about.

Is it like when a pensioner uses a bus pass and then at the end of the week or whatever the bus company tell the council there have been x amount of journeys so you owe us £x?

If whoever is in charge of the payment for school meals asks for reimbursement for X number of meals taken, then that's totally different to school being given x amount for each FSM child but half of them bring sandwiches instead.

duchy

So my understanding is if I claim for free school meals
1 If my child has those meals the school has one budget that pays for his meal
However in addition -

2 for every child in the school on the "eligable of free meals " list
the school gets OTHER money into a seperate budget that is part of the
general school budget to pay for additional things -as those children are considered economically deprived so the school gets more money to ensure stuff like trips, extra equipment , tuition etc is covered .

So qualifying for school meals is the marker -I don't see fraud in there just a badly
thought out way to tag which schools need the extra funding.

Silly way to do things but I can see the schools need to play the game or
lose out on funding which impacts all the children. Who the heck thinks up these daft ideas ?

duchy

sassyblue wrote: »

There are no 'extra services' provided by the school for lower income families, cost of uniform, bags etc is not supplied by the school. Extra tuition costs are provided by the school and l don't believe there are that many children needing extra tuition....

Do you not ? Where does this belief come from ?
I've worked in education and also my son was statemented in school and there's always more kids in need of extra support than there is funding. If children have AEN (something other parents may not be aware of) and need extra support in class in the form of specialist equipment or an extra classroom assistant in the class where do you think the money comes from to buy the equipment or pay the classroom assistant's wages ? The school has a limited budget not a bottomless money pit !

Additionally all schools do help families with uniform , trips etc in a variety of ways -unless you are one of those families you (rightly) wouldn't have a clue about it -it wouldn't be any of your business if another family was in need.

Svenena

sassyblue wrote: »

No, it's quite clear it's to pay for meals even if they're not being claimed.

There are no 'extra services' provided by the school for lower income families, cost of uniform, bags etc is not supplied by the school. Extra tuition costs are provided by the school and l don't believe there are that many children needing extra tuition....

I'm afraid you're wrong. There is extra money available ON TOP of that provided for the actual meals. So even if every child eligible took up their FSMs, there would be additional funding available to the the school. It's not for things like uniforms and bags, it goes on things like extra support staff or teachers, extra equipment (books, etc). These don't necessarily just benefit those who are eligible for FSM, but all pupils in the school. When you say extra tuition costs are provided by the school - the school can get the funding for this extra tuition through the pupil premium, so it doesn't have to come out of existing resources.

Info here: http://www.education.gov.uk/inthenews/inthenews/a00200096/schools-urged-to-make-sure-pupils-are-registered-for-their-pupil-premium-entitlement

ETA: The reason FSM is used as a measure to provide extra funding is also mentioned in the article I linked to:

"We know that just 27 per cent of pupils on Free School Meals get five good GCSE grades compared with 54 per cent of non-free school meal pupils. This extra funding will help tackle this inequality and enable schools to provide the extra support they need to reach their full potential."