ESA work capability question

Tia_Junior

PS. Note that the HCP is expected to explain in the ESA85 the reasons for any material differences from your ESA50 with some evidence - they CANNOT just express an unsupported opinion. They will say that diagnosis/condition history is large irrevant in the context of what they are assessing - rubbish! Although Atos claims to train HCPs in the art of disability assessment, the medical qualifications they demand of applicants is not always that exacting. The HCP may therefore have little or no knowledge of your condition and/or treatment. Likewise, they may not be familiar with your medication, let alone any combined side effects.

pinklady21

Hi there
Here's my tuppence worth:

1. Use the report from the appeal panel - that might help in filling in the ESA50 form. If there is sufficient evidence provided, then the Decision Maker may be able to make a decision based on the form and any other evidence available including medical evidence, rather than sending you for another WCA.

2. Remember the rules say that you should be able to complete all the activities in the descriptors "repeatedly, reliably and safely" otherwise you should be treated as unable to complete the activity.
Lord Freud stated this explicitly during a house of lords debate on ESA earlier this year.

3. Also the 'exceptional circumstances' rule. Basically, if going to work would make your condition worse, you should be assessed as unfit and should go straight to the Support Group.

Reg 29(b)
"suffering from some specific disease of bodily or mental disablement and consquently there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person if they were found not to have a limited capability for work."


4. Also - is there a self help group / charity for your condition?
They may have some specific help sheets that could assist you in completing the form.

Action for ME have quite a good one on ESA. If this is relevant to your condition, it might help you.
Best of luck
Kind regards

Katykat

Well, its taken me a while but at last my ESA is filled in ( with a bit of help) and I am posting it off recorded delivery later today. I have a Dr's report, prescriptions, hospital appointments, other documents relating to the help that I receive and the Tribunal report from earlier this year. I think I have answered the questions as honestly as I could. In areas where it askes a specific question like "can you move 200 yds" I answered "it varies" and then specified why it varies. I couldn't honestly answer no, because sometimes I can walk 200 yds. I dont want to spend my time looking over my shoulder in case anyone is spying on me walking more than 200yds.
Would I be within my rights to ask for a copy of any ATOS report before I leave the assessment. ( you see, I'm automatically assuming that I will have to have an assessment). Could I also ask the assessor to hold off sending it to the decision maker until I have seen the report and would I be allowed to comment on it if I disagreed. I'm trying to cover all bases here. My last assessor documented that I have a colostomy that wasn't causing any problems. Well, I dont ( & never have had) a colostomy & I would have corrected this if I had known about it.

rogerblack

Katykat wrote: »

Well, its taken me a while but at last my ESA is filled in ( with a bit of help) and I am posting it off recorded delivery later today.

Photocopy before you send.
They've lost at least one letter from me.

robus

Tia_Junior wrote: »

PS. Note that the HCP is expected to explain in the ESA85 the reasons for any material differences from your ESA50 with some evidence - they CANNOT just express an unsupported opinion. They will say that diagnosis/condition history is large irrevant in the context of what they are assessing - rubbish! Although Atos claims to train HCPs in the art of disability assessment, the medical qualifications they demand of applicants is not always that exacting. The HCP may therefore have little or no knowledge of your condition and/or treatment. Likewise, they may not be familiar with your medication, let alone any combined side effects.

A posting that gets exactly to the point!
You are asked initially what you cannot and can do, like shopping, walking etc. That is then put into the computer. As they progress through the assessment they are actually testing that what you put on the ESA50 and what you said initially to the assessor is true.
So many assessors just enter their opinion. ie, you may state that you can't walk more than 50 metres, yet the assessor might just say that you can walk at least 200 metres.
I have seen so many of these, including my own, where the assessor never gives any reason why his/her opinion is different to what you state.
You are right; the assessor is required to enter what evidence he has that would support his opinion over your's - but they very rarely do.
They act like God, by saying this it is what I think and it is correct because I say it is!
In one case, I complained, which resulted in an internal investigation within ATOS. The result of which was that the reviewing doctor admitted that the assessor was plainly wrong in his assessment as he had not given any justification to any of his decisions and as such there was no evidence to suggest that what the claimant had said wasn't the truth. The assessor was also given a verbal warning which was placed on his file. ATOS then wrote to the DWP and advised them to ignore the ESA85 as it could not be justified.

Cpt.Scarlet

Katykat wrote: »

Would I be within my rights to ask for a copy of any ATOS report before I leave the assessment. ( you see, I'm automatically assuming that I will have to have an assessment). Could I also ask the assessor to hold off sending it to the decision maker until I have seen the report and would I be allowed to comment on it if I disagreed. I'm trying to cover all bases here. My last assessor documented that I have a colostomy that wasn't causing any problems. Well, I dont ( & never have had) a colostomy & I would have corrected this if I had known about it.

You can ask, but you won't be given access to your medical report until after a Decision has been made.

Tia_Junior

Hi.
They will arrange an interview at home if you have genuine trouble getting to an assessment centre. You can claim expenses so take bank sort code & a/c no. with you as electronic is quicker than cheque. This is all explained in the leaflet with the appointment letter. Note the start and finish time of your assessment – both appear on the ESA85 but worth checking they have been correctly reported. Atos will not give you a copy of the report either after the assessment or subsequently as their contract with DWP means DWP “owns” the report. But you can ring the JC+ 0845 number to request a copy which they cannot refuse. Allow a day or 2 for it to get there and they will post to you within about a week, but you may find you have to remind them. You may well get the report ahead of the decision DWP makes - I had my 3rd WCA on 23/9, received the ESA85 7/10 but no decision yet. Prepare yourself for a shock in that Atos indicates nothing is wrong with you. The DWP decision making process is a charade. They claim to consider all sorts of things that they are simply not qualified for and basically the ESA85 determines the result. You can pretty much translate the ESA85 into points for yourself if you have the table. You may well be faced with initiating 2 complaints/appeals – one with Atos over the ESA85 and another with DWP over the dec ision they have made from it. They will use it to make a decision even though they know you have challenged it, so Atos gets the benefit of the doubt rather than you. The Atos complaints procedure is a joke. If you appeal against DWP decision you will end up in the Tribunal Service hearing queue which is about 12 months long. Don’t be surprised if your ESA is knocked back to the basic level in the meantime. As you can probably guess, I’ve been through this hoop a few times. Note also that contribution based ESA is likely to have a 12m limit set as part of the Welfare Reform Act – if it is voted thro’ House of Commons, will take effect April 2012. Hope you kept a copy of the ESA50. You will need to be very careful how you answer the questions they ask as they are "loaded". Happy tell you more as you progress

Katykat

Well, so much for sending in a comprehensive ESA50 along with strong supporting documentaion. I have been called for a "medical" with ATOS this friday. I say medical loosely as we all know it is nothing of the sort, its just a farce to fulfill the hype of government claims that 90% of claimants are not genuine. I think I'm ready, although I hate this battle mentality. I really feel like I have to go in there and stand my ground, and it shouldn't be like that at all. Oh well, I bet I already know the outcome. The next hurdle will be next April when the powers that be instigate the welfare reforms that say that because I worked for 42 years and paid NI all that time, then that means that I will not be entitled to any ESA at all after 12 months. Unlike the shirkers who have never paid a penny in NI and they will continue to get IB ESA.

cit_k

Cpt.Scarlet wrote: »

You can ask, but you won't be given access to your medical report until after a Decision has been made.

Do you know if that is official DWP policy, and if so, do you have a source for it? Just its an area currently being pursued, and that would be extra incriminating evidence..

cit_k

Dont forget if called for a medical, to request a copy of the esa85A preboard report that should give the evidence and reasons used in deciding you required a face to face medical..
Be prepared for the DWP not having a clue what you are talking about though, and having to explain its the preboard, esa85A (note the A)