Selling late mother's house - Land Registry problem

DVardysShadow

melb wrote: »

is there not any onus on the Land Registry themselves to have chased up this charge when the property was transferred into your mother's name? Have you spoken to them to see if they can find anything in their records? i found them as helpful as they could be when i rang them about a boundary issue I had.

The Land Registry's job is done once the charge is registered, unless there is fraud. The charge will normally be lifted by the lender and on transfer of the property, it is for the seller to ensure that the lender does this as part of the process of giving unencumbered possession. By default, the charge will remain unless someone outside the Land Registry initiates lifting it.

paddy's_mum

I hope Mr Loaner has got cast-iron paperwork and deep pockets with which to pursue a civil action against you. Should he lose, he will almost certainly have to pay your costs too.

In your shoes, I'd be getting my solicitor to send an offer of what .. #5,000? .. in order to avoid months (possibly years!) of stress, mounting legal costs, continuing house maintenance costs and perhaps pressure from other beneficiaries or creditors.

Did/do you have legal cover within the property's house insurance?

How old is Mr Loaner? You might wish to live in the house yourself and tell him to whistle for his money until and unless he can come up with substantial proof that anybody owes him a penny.

Forty years without so much as a murmur ....?

puddy

paddy's_mum wrote: »

I hope Mr Loaner has got cast-iron paperwork and deep pockets with which to pursue a civil action against you. Should he lose, he will almost certainly have to pay your costs too.

In your shoes, I'd be getting my solicitor to send an offer of what .. #5,000? .. in order to avoid months (possibly years!) of stress, mounting legal costs, continuing house maintenance costs and perhaps pressure from other beneficiaries or creditors.

Did/do you have legal cover within the property's house insurance?

How old is Mr Loaner? You might wish to live in the house yourself and tell him to whistle for his money until and unless he can come up with substantial proof that anybody owes him a penny.

Forty years without so much as a murmur ....?

but arent they the ones that have to provide the proof as its them that want the charge removed?
if the house was being sold with no charge and then he popped up out of the woodwork and said that they couldnt sell the house because he was owed this money, then yes, he could take them to court, but in this case, surely its him who would be taken to court and therefore they have to find proof to make their claim that the debt is not there?

JacquiMarie

puddy wrote: »

but did he just lend them a fixed amount, or was it an agreement to pay back 20% of the property at pay back time? if the former, then no, he wont get any extra, unless as i say there was an agreement for interest

where is the proof that he lent them the money anyway, what were the terms and conditions?

It was written down in the court proceedings that money was lent by this man as they couldn't afford the whole mortgage from the bank. Also it would appear it was lodged with Land Registry which is how it all came about. We have no written information as to the ts&cs - all we know is the initial amount that was lent.

paddy's_mum

Kathymel wrote: »

he claimed that he had not received a penny of the money and would be pursuing it now.

My answer would be here's our offer - otherwise, go forth and pursue to your heart's content.

puddy

so its a fixed amount, can you say what it is?

JacquiMarie

paddy's_mum wrote: »

I hope Mr Loaner has got cast-iron paperwork and deep pockets with which to pursue a civil action against you. Should he lose, he will almost certainly have to pay your costs too.

In your shoes, I'd be getting my solicitor to send an offer of what .. #5,000? .. in order to avoid months (possibly years!) of stress, mounting legal costs, continuing house maintenance costs and perhaps pressure from other beneficiaries or creditors.

Did/do you have legal cover within the property's house insurance?

How old is Mr Loaner? You might wish to live in the house yourself and tell him to whistle for his money until and unless he can come up with substantial proof that anybody owes him a penny.

Forty years without so much as a murmur ....?

I'm not sure about legal cover with the house insurance - I will look into that, thanks.

Well, all we know is that our Mr Loaner is retired.

We have our own families and lives and do not wish to live in Mum's house - we just want to close this chapter and get on.

He's stating that the onus is on us to prove the money has been paid and he has us over a barrell at the moment as we can't do anything without his signature on the Deeds.

We're both of us reluctant to give him anything in this situation.

Forty years without even a whisper - quite incredible!

puddy

paddy's_mum wrote: »

My answer would be here's our offer - otherwise, go forth and pursue to your heart's content.

the point is, its not in his interest to spend time and money persuing it, he can merely wait for the property to be sold. whether that is now or in 10 years time or what have you.

what would happen when he dies, can he pass this on through his estate to be got by a beneficiary?

JacquiMarie

puddy wrote: »

so its a fixed amount, can you say what it is?

Not without KathyMel's consent.

We know the initial sum but if he wants interest added to that sum it could run quite happily into a very substantial amount after 43 years!

And if we offer to pay back the original loan amount who's to say that he will then not turn round and ask for the interest and any other losses that he could think up before signing off the paperwork - it could turn out to be quite a nice 'cash cow' for him.

We both feel we're being held to ransom.

puddy

JacquiMarie wrote: »

Not without KathyMel's consent.

We know the initial sum but if he wants interest added to that sum it could run quite happily into a very substantial amount after 43 years!

And if we offer to pay back the original loan amount who's to say that he will then not turn round and ask for the interest and any other losses that he could think up before signing off the paperwork - it could turn out to be quite a nice 'cash cow' for him.

We both feel we're being held to ransom.

thats because you are. you have little power in this situation

this is why i asked what proof has he of the amount owed and the terms and conditions. you could get away with the amount owed, because presumably the charge at the land registry (i dont know about these) simply has an outstanding amount on it

it wont have terms and conditions will it? if not, where are they? if he cant prove it comes with interest added to it and the interest rate then he too is scuppered if it goes to court, yes he will probably win the actual amount but if he cant prove it came with interest, he wont get that

so galling as it is, looks like an offer for the outstanding amount needs to be made to him, it would be drawn up by solicitors to be a full and final settlement and so he couldnt have any comeback