'Don't pay your kids tuition fees upfront' Discussion Area

melancholly

setmefree2 wrote: »

I know you have criticized me for this but this is another aspect of the SL system I don't like. If you want to help your kids it's an all or nothing scenario. It's £45k or don't bother. I really really don't like that aspect.

no it's not. you don't have to take both the fees and living expenses loans and you don't have to take them every year.

setmefree2

The_One_Who wrote: »

Why should higher education be free for all?

Because the British Economy needs highly qualified folk

The_One_Who wrote: »

It is not part of the compulsory education system, nor is it universally accessible like the health care system. It is not a basic right.

Well once upon a time schooling wasn't universally accessible and in only my Dad's day they left school at 14. Things progress surely...

The_One_Who wrote: »

I think we both agree that higher education should be restricted to those who are academically capable, but at the moment we need to work within the system we have.

I don't know what you mean by this? Do you mean people shouldn't do media studies, golf management, surf studies etc. I actually think we should fund those courses.

The_One_Who wrote: »

I would have been more than happy to pay for my university education, but then I (unlike most students) have an understanding as to how much it really cost. I was lucky that I didn't need to pay fees, but I would if I had to.

As I said I think HE should be funded through general taxation.

setmefree2

melancholly wrote: »

no it's not. you don't have to take both the fees and living expenses loans and you don't have to take them every year.

No you don't have to take them but ML had a whole thread on why part paying upfront is a waste of money. Did you not see it?

The_One_Who

setmefree2 wrote: »

Because the British Economy needs highly qualified folk

And it's got them, the jobs market cannot absorb the graduates that there are already. It needs more people in some areas, admittedly.

I don't know what you mean by this? Do you mean people shouldn't do media studies, golf management, surf studies etc. I actually think we should fund those courses.

I've said nothing about individual courses. I think university education should be for those who are academically capable. Going to university with two Ds at A level doesn't class as capable, in my mind. Universities should not be having to run remedial classes, but that is probably the fault of the schooling system.

I fully accept and acknowledge that people change and that different educational systems suit different people. That is why I support other routes both in to jobs and into education if that is what the person wants further down the line.

setmefree2

The_One_Who wrote: »

I've said nothing about individual courses. I think university education should be for those who are academically capable. Going to university with two Ds at A level doesn't class as capable, in my mind. Universities should not be having to run remedial classes, but that is probably the fault of the schooling system.

I fully accept and acknowledge that people change and that different educational systems suit different people. That is why I support other routes both in to jobs and into education if that is what the person wants further down the line.

I don't know anything about students who go to Uni with two Ds. But before I eject them from the HE system I would like to know what sort of things they study. If they are doing surf studies, golf management, media or guitar studies I will happily let them stay. They may well contribute quite a bit to the British economy in the future. So who are you ejecting?

setmefree2

In my search for the thread on "don't part pay you student fees" I found this....

This means on current thresholds, a typical graduate will face the following deductions from their payroll, while they still have an outstanding student loan.

Equivalent 'marginal' (1) tax rates for graduates under 2012 system

Assumes current tax thresholds remain

Annual earnings up to £7,475 No tax – as this is the typical 'personal allowance' the amount earnable before income tax starts.

Earnings over £7,475 up to £21,000 32% tax and national insurance

Earnings above £21,000 41% due to addition of student loan repayments

Earnings above £42,475 51% due to addition of higher rate tax, but drop in national insurance (2)

Earnings above £150,000 61% due to higher rate tax (2)

(1) 'Marginal' means you only pay the specified tax rate on that portion of salary.
For more see the Tax Rates guide.
(2) Earn above £100,000 and your personal allowance will also be affected.

It's in this guide here - quite far down the page.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes#18

melancholly

setmefree2 wrote: »

No you don't have to take them but ML had a whole thread on why part paying upfront is a waste of money. Did you not see it?

right, so you make a statement that it isn't possible - when it is. that's not the same as ML saying it isn't a good idea.

it really doesn't matter what i post, does it? you will argue black is white if i've said it! sometimes i despair......

The_One_Who

setmefree2 wrote: »

I don't know anything about students who go to Uni with two Ds. But before I eject them from the HE system I would like to know what sort of things they study. If they are doing surf studies, golf management, media or guitar studies I will happily let them stay. They may well contribute quite a bit to the British economy in the future. So who are you ejecting?

Typically the lower ranked universities do take students with less than ideal grades, at least for what I'd consider to be capable for studying at a rigorous academic level. I believe universities have increased entry requirements for 2012, so I don't think it's now possible to get in with two Ds, although it certainly was at one point not too long ago. This was for all (or at least most) subjects.

I would rather students went through a foundation system so that they could be brought up to a reasonable level (and learned the appropriate skill-set), rather than people choosing to go to university simply because it is expected, when it may not necessarily be for them. Not everyone is academic, and that's fine. The sooner we accept this the better.

I acknowledge that a widespread closure (or even mergers) of higher education institutions isn't going to happen, nor would I want it to. I think that brings a whole host of issues and probably wouldn't really solve anything.

I'm not "ejecting" anyone from higher education. All I'm saying is that if the pool of students was smaller, there would be more money to go around and the system would be more sustainable.

Oldernotwiser

setmefree2 wrote: »

I don't know anything about students who go to Uni with two Ds. But before I eject them from the HE system I would like to know what sort of things they study. If they are doing surf studies, golf management, media or guitar studies I will happily let them stay. They may well contribute quite a bit to the British economy in the future. So who are you ejecting?

I would think that quite a lot of students with two Ds are actually studying "surf studies, golf management, media or guitar studies " so you can't really have it both ways.

Oldernotwiser

setmefree2 wrote: »

I pay plenty of tax and so do most of my colleagues. I'm sure we've given back more to the British Economy than we've ever taken, so I think your comments are unfair.

Not the point I was making.

Encouraging HE to be funded by general taxation when high earners have it within their power to avoid taxation doesn't seem to me to be an equitable way of funding at all!