'Don't pay your kids tuition fees upfront' Discussion Area

tyllwyd

setmefree2 wrote: »

Does anyone know what the Labour Party Graduate Tax policy means? Would it be retrospective? Would they just do away with all the student loans outstanding and tax all ex graduates or would the loan schemes run their course?

Just a guess, but I'd have thought it could only apply to new graduates from a certain date and existing loans would stay as they are. If you tried to tax graduates who had already paid back some or all of their loans, or never taken out a loan at all, that would cause all sorts of problems.

Oldernotwiser

setmefree2 wrote: »

or those who work the hardest get to pay for everybody else who can't be bothered to put in some effort.....:eek:

Even tongue in cheek, it's hard to believe that anyone can think that those who work hardest in our society earn the most.

setmefree2

tyllwyd wrote: »

Just a guess, but I'd have thought it could only apply to new graduates from a certain date and existing loans would stay as they are. If you tried to tax graduates who had already paid back some or all of their loans, or never taken out a loan at all, that would cause all sorts of problems.

I could imagine them bringing in a policy that introduced a Graduate Tax for all students who started Uni from 2012. They might want to do something retrospective for the 2012 students and this would possibly be a vote winner? I would guess that all graduates would pay the tax whether they'd pay their tuition fess upfront or not???

I gather that the Graduate Tax only applies to Tuition Fees and not to maintenance loans. The maintenance Loan system will continue as it is.

setmefree2

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Even tongue in cheek, it's hard to believe that anyone can think that those who work hardest in our society earn the most.

I do agree with you. There are some very hard working low paid people.

But most high earners already pay half of their salary in tax (over the threshold) : 40% plus 10%ish NI. Many pay 60% at the margin : 50% plus NI.

Add Student loans which are about 7% at the margin - some people could be paying nearly 70% at the margin.

70% !!!!!! There should be a law against taking 70% of someone's hard earned money!!!!!

There is a limit to how much you can bleed high earners.

melancholly

setmefree2 wrote: »

I could imagine them bringing in a policy that introduced a Graduate Tax for all students who started Uni from 2012. They might want to do something retrospective for the 2012 students and this would possibly be a vote winner? I would guess that all graduates would pay the tax whether they'd pay their tuition fess upfront or not???

I gather that the Graduate Tax only applies to Tuition Fees and not to maintenance loans. The maintenance Loan system will continue as it is.

i think recent history means that whatever a political party says in opposition means nothing about HE until they get into power. we've had so many promises on tuition fees that were ignored that i don't think it's worth even worrying about what they might do..... and that's especially true of the labour party at this point in the election cycle. what they say now is likely to change by an election run and then change again if they got into power.

i know i'm highly cynical, but opening up the debate to include all the potential what-ifs from a half explained policy from an opposition that may never get in doesn't seem wise. i also think that they wouldn't change it for people already in the system, even if they did get in and make one of their priorities reorganising HE finances. they haven't done that with any changes they've made so far. i don't trust them to make good decisions about student loans/graduate tax, but i don't think any retrospective changes are ever going to happen. people will have signed loan agreements and it's not so easy to just change T&Cs like that.

setmefree2

melancholly wrote: »

people will have signed loan agreements and it's not so easy to just change T&Cs like that.

What's a Student Loan Agreement look like? Is there any where I can view a copy?

Edit : don't worry I found something here

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@educ/documents/digitalasset/dg_183903.pdf

Thank You

melancholly

thinking about this, the current system with a loan agreement gives a bit more protection against changes than having a graduate tax. tax rates change relatively frequently and without any recourse for people, but a student loan is given on specific terms that can't be played around with at a later date. in principle, i prefer a graduate tax idea but i think the specifics of it make it a much more complicated thing to implement.....

setmefree2

But what about this bit?

When you take out a loan, we will ask you to sign
a combined loan application and agreement form
which will be a contract. You must agree to repay
your loan in line with the regulations that apply at
the time the repayments are due and as they are
amended. The regulations may be replaced by
later regulations

Page 7 Your Responsiblities.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@educ/documents/digitalasset/dg_174310.pdf


Doesn't that mean that they can ammend your loan? Or am I missing something?

Taiko

COuld in theory, but would open up a much larger can of worms.

setmefree2

Has my memory failed me or has this thread changed it's title?