When Greece defaults should we buy on the bullets? And if so, what?

pqrdef

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

All governments need to run a zero deficit asap

When did government borrowing suddenly become such a no-no, after all these years? Why?

And where will pension funds put their money, if the government won't borrow it?

bendix

pqrdef wrote: »

When did government borrowing suddenly become such a no-no, after all these years? Why?

And where will pension funds put their money, if the government won't borrow it?

Government borrowing isn't a no-no. Every government around the world does it and should do it.

However, perpetually running massive debt balances is and has led to the calamitous state that western (so-called) advanced economies are now in: virtual bankruptcy and no economic growth and massive unemployment. Congratulations people - this is what your sense of a god-given right to a welfare state and cradle to grave pampering has brought you to. You reap what you sew.

Meanwhile, in the rest of the world, there are economies where economic growth is very fast, where government's borrow but structure their finances to be able to run balanced budgets, and were the addiction to debt is as little ingrained in governments as it is in their populations.

China, HK, Singapore, virtually all of developing and developed Asia.

And you wonder why the future of the world is in the East . .

Ark_Welder

1997 Asian financial crisis

Reuters 21/09: Hong Kong's stock index ends at 2-year low; China gains
FT 20/09: Swift exit from emerging market currencies
Bloomberg 23/08: Hong Kong’s ‘Scary’ 7.9% Inflation May Fuel Wages Even as Recession Looms

lewistye

sheslookinhot wrote: »

I am not so sure, most of the turbulance in recent markets is linked to Greece in some way, even todays falls.

I can see a drop of over 500 points if Greece defaults.

Banking shares have halved over the last few months, yes due to fears on Greece and contagion, but a default would only push a depressed market lower.

Given the volatility over the last few months, it would be tough to justify classing a 500 point drop as "chaos" as the OP suggested.

I'm not for a moment saying that a Greek default will go unnoticed, but I doubt any impact would be immediate. I would expect it to spread over a few months as the contagion also spreads.

As one other poster pointed out, an Italian (and even more so Spanish) default could have the potential for "chaos".

sabretoothtigger

If Greece defaults its quite possibly a positive. For Greece, for holders of Euro, for tax payers in Europe but not for the Greek bond holders who will lose some value however the prices of their bonds arent great now anyway so that part is not much different.

It would also be bad for future overspending in politics, thats a positive. Markets would likely fall anyway as Greece is a flag for future events, the process itself is a positive vs money serving loss making government policy

blinko

bendix wrote: »

Government borrowing isn't a no-no. Every government around the world does it and should do it.

However, perpetually running massive debt balances is and has led to the calamitous state that western (so-called) advanced economies are now in: virtual bankruptcy and no economic growth and massive unemployment. Congratulations people - this is what your sense of a god-given right to a welfare state and cradle to grave pampering has brought you to. You reap what you sew.

Meanwhile, in the rest of the world, there are economies where economic growth is very fast, where government's borrow but structure their finances to be able to run balanced budgets, and were the addiction to debt is as little ingrained in governments as it is in their populations.

China, HK, Singapore, virtually all of developing and developed Asia.

And you wonder why the future of the world is in the East . .

the problem is these guys are reliant on the west

they dont spend enough and we spend too much, if we go bust we all go bust

but really and truly we mis managed our economies god knows how we are going to get out of this one

sabretoothtigger

Ancient Greek sling bullets with engravings. One side depicts a winged thunderbolt, and the other, the Greek inscription “take that” (ΔΕΞΑΙ) in high relief.

Ark_Welder

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

Ancient Greek sling bullets with engravings. One side depicts a winged thunderbolt, and the other, the Greek inscription “take that” (ΔΕΞΑΙ) in high relief.

They were used to pelt early boy-bands. Others have been found with the inscription "wham!"

Rollinghome

bendix wrote: »

Congratulations people - this is what your sense of a god-given right to a welfare state and cradle to grave pampering has brought you to. You reap what you sew.

So it was that welfare state wot dun it was it? They don't go in for much in the way of a welfare state in the US so a bit odd that they seem to be in a spot of bother too.

There was a bit of muttering that iffy practices by the banks over there might have had something to do with it which sounded plausible but then I probably don't read the same imaginative newspapers as you.

sabretoothtigger

They don't go in for much in the way of a welfare state in the US

I used to think that but they have 50% taxes apparently and 90% of mortgages are funded by government, etc