hows the construction industry doing

Jimmy_31

thriftybabe wrote: »

We don't need to worry about anyone not signing tool box talks etc. We have our own health and safety advisor who deals with it. We do not take curb levy off our divvies and have never done. Sorry for your experiences. We have heard that there are a lot of bad subbies out there but we r not one of them. Our guys always get paid on the dot. When we don't get paid, we do without wages not our men. Do not tar us all with the same brush when u don't know us.

The construction industry is hellish for all who work in it. It is not easy for anyone. On another note my OH is a well respected subbie and in addition is the hardest working person I know. He still works on the sites when he can and is certainly very good at what he does.

With regards to backhanders I am sure that goes on at higher levels between planning and contractors but not at our level!

Currently off the top of my head we have a main sub contractor in a certain area back handing one of the directors at the biggest main contractors so he can supply the labour to site (plus tell you to sign a toolbox talk sheet).

This main sub contractor threatens and bullies lads when they ask why they have not been paid again.

This main sub contractor must not realise that the lads he abuses (usually the ones new to subbying) are now getting ready to sell his debts to them (wages) onto somebody who he will pay.

Another director from another firm got severely beaten in his office about 6 months ago for not paying up so obviously we are now getting to the stage were things are getting ugly.

May i ask if the subbys who work for you are given a contract ?

bo_drinker

There are some very dodgy middle men out there, and of course some sound ones. Main contractors don't want the hassle of employing and dealing with all, they want to pay one person who sorts the !!!! .
I am currently chasing money owed from 12 months ago, bailiffs helped, doubled the debt though. There are currently 60.000 + less working in the industry than 12 months ago, main reason lack of work.... other reasons will be a reality check on the whole game. There will be within 5 to 10 years a skills shortage due to the current state of the game. I wonder who will fill that gap when the time comes.(it's not rocket science) A few years ago I wouldn't go near private work, all changed now, won't touch big site work now.

OptionARMAGEDDON

shame. in north Gloucs, really struggled to find decent tradesmen with a bit of flex to my requirements. minimum per day rate i offer is 120 in hand for chippies, roofers and brikkies, 170 for corgi and 180 niceic. Actual payment depending on skill and I generally tip (up to 10% a day) for exceptional work. I like to buy all my materials myself, mainly as its easier to finance and track in and outs that way. We have had a few unreliable trades and one or two that have come across as cant be botHered. Never had issue with any of our plasterers, both of whom were fantastic. dont boTher speaking to me if you are HETAS, too many of your chums have tried to rip me off, so 200 cash in hand for a flue install has n ow turned nto a diy job. Your loss. I have one guy I use for lots he is ace, but unfortunately overbooked as all top blokes seem to be.

Any top tips where i can find decent tradespeople, I have cash to spend on work, I just cant seem to find decent tradespeople to do it? for example, i need a DECENT chippy who has worked with oak before, need to have 4 oak doorframes put in, doors hung and half a dozen solid oak windowsills knocked up. 6 days wrok at least there and all materials paid for so no worries for non payment. needs doing around Feb time, as I say, North Gloucs way?

tleefox

OptionArmageddon:

My brother in law is a chippy / furniture maker in the Bristol area. He has recently set up on his own - I'll PM you his details / website and you can see what you think.

He is doing some work for my father over the next couple of months, and I cannot recommend him highly enough - there are pictures on his site of projects he has done recently.

Generali

I seem to have stumbled across a thread written by people ostensibly speaking English but in a dialect I've never heard before. I can only surmise that either:

1. You're all using jargon
2. This is an Orkney Islands (or similar - Manx?) based conversation

Anyone care to translate. !!!!!! does toolbox mean in this context for example?

thriftybabe

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

Currently off the top of my head we have a main sub contractor in a certain area back handing one of the directors at the biggest main contractors so he can supply the labour to site (plus tell you to sign a toolbox talk sheet).

This main sub contractor threatens and bullies lads when they ask why they have not been paid again.

This main sub contractor must not realise that the lads he abuses (usually the ones new to subbying) are now getting ready to sell his debts to them (wages) onto somebody who he will pay.

Another director from another firm got severely beaten in his office about 6 months ago for not paying up so obviously we are now getting to the stage were things are getting ugly.

May i ask if the subbys who work for you are given a contract ?

No-one has every approached us to give them back handers to get work. We have built a good solid reputation over many years and have never done that. Up until the recession we were never out of work. Things were a bit ropey for a while but are looking a bit better. In saying that my OH wants to get out of the Construction Industry because of the way he and his subbies are treated by Main Contractors. Unfortunately he does alot of the work their own Site Agents are supposed to do. He also has 2 excellent foremen on his sites to look after everything. He is a very hands on boss. He is well organised and has a bit of OCD when it comes to his work!

He is very fair with the Sub-Contractors many of whom we let go when things got really tight but many have come back now things have picked up a bit. We get phone calls from a really good subbie who has work for the next few years but wants to come back to us. However my OH has told him to stay there as we have work only a few months at a time. To say he is very fair is an understatement. He helps the guys out, subs them up front, helps them with tools etc. His main guys are very loyal to him as he is with them. It works both ways.

Those that have worked elsewhere have told us how they are treated so we know that there are a lot of bad subbies out there.

We do have Subcontractor Contracts for all our subbies as advised by our Accountant. Why do you ask?

Jimmy_31

thriftybabe wrote: »

No-one has every approached us to give them back handers to get work. We have built a good solid reputation over many years and have never done that. Up until the recession we were never out of work. Things were a bit ropey for a while but are looking a bit better. In saying that my OH wants to get out of the Construction Industry because of the way he and his subbies are treated by Main Contractors. Unfortunately he does alot of the work their own Site Agents are supposed to do. He also has 2 excellent foremen on his sites to look after everything. He is a very hands on boss. He is well organised and has a bit of OCD when it comes to his work!

He is very fair with the Sub-Contractors many of whom we let go when things got really tight but many have come back now things have picked up a bit. We get phone calls from a really good subbie who has work for the next few years but wants to come back to us. However my OH has told him to stay there as we have work only a few months at a time. To say he is very fair is an understatement. He helps the guys out, subs them up front, helps them with tools etc. His main guys are very loyal to him as he is with them. It works both ways.

Those that have worked elsewhere have told us how they are treated so we know that there are a lot of bad subbies out there.

We do have Subcontractor Contracts for all our subbies as advised by our Accountant. Why do you ask?

Im glad to hear there are main subbies out there that play a little bit fairer.

I ask if you give them contracts because i have been offered a few contracts in my time whilst subbyin, the contract are always made in such a way that would keep me in work for x amont of 1st fixes or whatever.

If i had signed one of these contracts then a cards in lads would have been made redundant because i have taken his work, i never sign them but some people do.

No main contractors or main sub contractors in our area will take on cards in anymore and are playing the moody contract game to get rid of cards in lads because they know they can take the pi55 out of most subbys regarding the workload for daywork or the laughable prices for price work.

Must be costing your firm a fortune in redundancy payments this recession eh;)

Plus christmas is coming so you are going to have to fork out all that holiday pay for the lads who work for you;)

Jimmy_31

bo_drinker wrote: »

There are some very dodgy middle men out there, and of course some sound ones. Main contractors don't want the hassle of employing and dealing with all, they want to pay one person who sorts the !!!! .
I am currently chasing money owed from 12 months ago, bailiffs helped, doubled the debt though. There are currently 60.000 + less working in the industry than 12 months ago, main reason lack of work.... other reasons will be a reality check on the whole game. There will be within 5 to 10 years a skills shortage due to the current state of the game. I wonder who will fill that gap when the time comes.(it's not rocket science) A few years ago I wouldn't go near private work, all changed now, won't touch big site work now.

Definitely will be a shortage of decent trades in the coming years, the joinery apprentiship that the new lads on site take currently consists of a ten day course to become an interior fitter.

I dont train any lads because i dont have the time because im on a price but i see plenty of the site agents take them under their wings and teach them how to fill a skip. This is probably against some health and safety rule due to them being interior fitters because they are told at the "college" that they wont be working outside because they are an interior fitter, fascia and soffit prices should steadily increase when things get better i reckon:)

Jimmy_31

Generali wrote: »

I seem to have stumbled across a thread written by people ostensibly speaking English but in a dialect I've never heard before. I can only surmise that either:

1. You're all using jargon
2. This is an Orkney Islands (or similar - Manx?) based conversation

Anyone care to translate. !!!!!! does toolbox mean in this context for example?

The toolbox talk is what the site agent is supposed to read out to the lads on site, topics of the talk are usually things like manual handling (how to pick a box up) confined spaces (dont go down a hole if its a tight fit) working in public areas (keep your mouth shut or you get laid off) just common sense things really.

Its very rare the site agent reads them out but does always ask you to sign them, the same applies to the site induction, lots of the lads sign them with stupid names like terry bull or tim burr (usually a joiner that one:)). they use the fake name because the site agent hasnt actually given any talk or induction so if an accident happens there is no record of the site agent telling us about any issues we should watch out for from site to site.

Oh and a subby (sole trader) is somebody who does the exact same job as a cards in lad but recieves no holiday pay, sick pay, or redundancy, which is fine as long as this is stated in their contract, but if they have no contract then they are an employee and can rightfully claim holiday pay and redundancy when they get laid off if they so choose.

Lots dont claim it because they know they will probably be back working at the firm in a few months so most just plan on claiming it all back once the work totally drys up.

bo_drinker

Grey area that, subby (self employed) with a contract ?? unless things have changed for the IR, who were very interested when everyone was wanting to be s/employed but not so now things have changed.(they were missing out on the NI contributions so they threw their teddies, they don't give a toss so much now. To the outsiders it seems a sh1 tty area to be in so you can see why there will be a shortage further down the line ..