Economy Seven stick or bust

The_Bald_Piper

I'm currently on dual fuel plus Economy 7 (E7). My fix ends 30 September 2011 and I'm looking to check suppliers for a new deal fixed or otherwise. It has been suggested that due to my low E7 usage (no more than 25%) it may be cheaper to ditch E7. If I do ditch, do I need a new meter and who pays, how do I handle this via the normal energy switching websites if at all?

Cardew

Welcome to the forum.

Some companies - certainly BG and E-On - allow you to be on a 'normal' 24/7 tariff and retain your E7 meter. They simply add the two totals and this is treated as a single total. e.g. 600kWh on off-peak meter and 3000kWh on daytime meter is treated as 3,600kWh.

Some have reported on MSE that a company will change your meter free of charge - others charge.

It is obviously easy to use the comparison websites to ascertain if E7 is viable for your level of consumption - the break-even point varies greatly from company to company and tariff to tariff depending where you live.

rogerblack

In general, the day units are so much more expensive that unless you can move a large slice of your load to nights, it's not worth it.

The first hit on ebay that I found had 250 quid for an 18kWh (new) heater.

If you use this fully for 4 months of the year, this will use 2160kWh, and save you about 100 quid.
However, this is the equivalent of 1kW heat output or so. Even the smallest property is likely to need several.

Running washing machines and stuff can of course help, but with the increasing number of 'entertainment' appiances that are on during daylight and evening, the number of daytime units you're using can be rather high, and outweigh the savings.

In short - if you have gas central heating, and use it - it's a no-brainer.
Almost nobody (apart from those with very unusual activity patterns) will save money on economy 7.

At least till batteries get a lot better, and we can run off night-time electricity during the day!

Premier_2

rogerblack wrote: »

In general, the day units are so much more expensive that unless you can move a large slice of your load to nights, it's not worth it.

The first hit on ebay that I found had 250 quid for an 18kWh (new) heater.

If you use this fully for 4 months of the year, this will use 2160kWh, and save you about 100 quid.
However, this is the equivalent of 1kW heat output or so. Even the smallest property is likely to need several.

Running washing machines and stuff can of course help, but with the increasing number of 'entertainment' appiances that are on during daylight and evening, the number of daytime units you're using can be rather high, and outweigh the savings.

In short - if you have gas central heating, and use it - it's a no-brainer.
Almost nobody (apart from those with very unusual activity patterns) will save money on economy 7.

At least till batteries get a lot better, and we can run off night-time electricity during the day!

Incorrect!

The typical premium for day units over the equivilent singl;e rate tariff is about 10% or less.
The saving for the 7 hours cheap electreicity is typically 50% or more :beer:

Breakeven point is often about 25% night usage, which baring in mind 7/24 is over 29% may not be difficult to achieve.

BUT... it does vary considerably. Breakeven can be <0% night time usage (Yes there are some suppliers/tariffs/areas where it daytime rates are actually chaeper than the equivilent single rate and so it will always pay to be on E7) to > 50%.

Best thing the OP can do is use a comparison site to see for themselves the best option. They have all the data they need if they currently have a dual rate meter; they just need to run the comparison twice and manually compare the total annual costs.

We did that, have gas central heating and still have E7 because it saves us money. :beer:

Cardew

rogerblack wrote: »

In general, the day units are so much more expensive that unless you can move a large slice of your load to nights, it's not worth it.

In short - if you have gas central heating, and use it - it's a no-brainer.
Almost nobody (apart from those with very unusual activity patterns) will save money on economy 7.

You shouldn't make such sweeping statements.

As stated it the post above by Premier, and repeating what I said above, the tariffs vary tremendously not only by company, but according to the area of UK you live.

Even the issue of gas being a 'no brainer' does not hold true all the time.

If you have an old inefficient boiler, especially with a pilot light, it may well pay you to switch off the gas boiler during the summer months and heat Hot water on E7 with an immersion heater - many people take that action.

Doing that you pay for no Tier 1 gas, nothing for a pilot light(more expensive than many realise)

rogerblack

Cardew wrote: »

You shouldn't make such sweeping statements.

As stated it the post above by Premier, and repeating what I said above, the tariffs vary tremendously not only by company, but according to the area of UK you live.

On checking, you're right, I probably shouldn't.
A couple of years when I looked at this, in my area, the surcharge was around 50-60%.
It's now 20%.
It would be so nice if there were an actual database of this available.
This would be plottable on a map, and show areas of the country with different minimal prices, and skews between night and day rates.

Cardew

rogerblack wrote: »

On checking, you're right, I probably shouldn't.
A couple of years when I looked at this, in my area, the surcharge was around 50-60%.
It's now 20%.
It would be so nice if there were an actual database of this available.
This would be plottable on a map, and show areas of the country with different minimal prices, and skews between night and day rates.

The problem is the situation changes on an almost monthly basis.

The OP has a dilemma.

Firstly having an E7 meter will restrict the number of companies that will allow him to have a 'normal' 24/7 tariff by adding the consumption from both meters and treating it as a single amount.

However if he gets rid of the E7 meter, he will not be able to take advantage of an E7 tariff in future that may be more suitable.

As posted above by Premier:

Yes there are some suppliers/tariffs/areas where it daytime rates are actually chaeper than the equivilent single rate and so it will always pay to be on E7

On a number of occasions in the past I have actually seen an internet tariff with daytime rates cheaper than the equivalent single rate.

For instance in the London area it is possible someone to get daytime electricity on an E7 tariff at under 10p/kWh - that is much cheaper than most E7 tariffs and indeed cheaper than many single rate tarrifs

npowerman

The_Bald_Piper wrote: »

I'm currently on dual fuel plus Economy 7 (E7). My fix ends 30 September 2011 and I'm looking to check suppliers for a new deal fixed or otherwise. It has been suggested that due to my low E7 usage (no more than 25%) it may be cheaper to ditch E7. If I do ditch, do I need a new meter and who pays, how do I handle this via the normal energy switching websites if at all?

Just call your supplier. They should be able to record the amount on night and day readings on your meter for however long you have been with them, and calculate them on what a normal standard meter would charge. Tell you the difference in £'s and it should be an easy decision.

I also suggest getting the meter changed if Economy 7 does not work out as economical, especially if you own the property and heat it a different way from Storage heaters. Ther reason for this is, you can get the tariff changed so that both night and day rate is charged on normal standard rate, eliminating the problem with Economy 7.

But if you were ever to change supplier, the SSC code on the meter will determine it as an Economy 7 meter with that new supplier, meaning the new supplier will automatically place you on an Economy 7 tariff so you have to repeat the process all over again. Changing the meter to a single rate meter stops this.

Cardew

npowerman wrote: »

But if you were ever to change supplier, the SSC code on the meter will determine it as an Economy 7 meter with that new supplier, meaning the new supplier will automatically place you on an Economy 7 tariff so you have to repeat the process all over again. Changing the meter to a single rate meter stops this.

Not so!

I have had an Economy 7 meter for 23 years but for 20+ years have been on a normal 24/7 tariff(they add the consumption on both displays and treat as a single figure). I have changed suppliers and retained this arrangement.

As stated above,

The OP has a dilemma.

Firstly having an E7 meter will restrict the number of companies that will allow him to have a 'normal' 24/7 tariff by adding the consumption from both meters and treating it as a single amount.

However if he gets rid of the E7 meter, he will not be able to take advantage of an E7 tariff in future that may be more suitable.